Fallen+Keeper on 27/8/2014 at 20:56
Quote Posted by Sharga
Interesting. Was it the caves? Some of the caves started to look the same, but I really enjoyed exploring and finding hidden tombs throughout the network of caverns.
It was because of the caves I think. The problem, in my opinion, is that there was very little reward for exploration. True, it felt large, but in the end it was also pretty empty. And everytime I play it I hope I just missed some hidden areas the last time I tried it.
The Lost City is a gem. I agree, Thief 2 didn't have that feeling, it was all about sneaking around AI, and there was no exploration of creepy, ancient places. For me the best thing about T1 for was returning to places full of living people after a mission in a place devoid of life. I loved that sense of relief. Maybe that's why I loved Assassins :) After a trip to the Bonehoard taking down a major crime boss felt like a walk in the park.
I felt the same relief during Stange Bedfellows briefing. I was really convinced I would have a chance to contact the Hammers, I felt so much safer. And then the sense of dread when I saw the first body.
I think that's it. For me Thief is a game about a fear of creepy, dangerous places. Almost half of T1 locations felt dangerous and maybe that's why I was so disappointed by T2: it had none of it.
And after what Garrett experienced in the first game, going against mortal enemies and more "mundaine" problems felt like a walk in the park. Seriously, after you ventured into a half-forgotten mausoleum, full of walking corpses, after a trip to a mythical, burried city,or to a desacrated cathedral, full of undead priests, after a god ripped your eye out and after your descend into his realm to take it back... what kind of steam robot or religious fanatic is going to spook you?
King No One on 27/8/2014 at 21:46
TDP: Break from Cragscleft- I always love a mission with more than one type of enemy/environment on offer. From the spider/undead haunted depths of the haunted mines to the gritty Hammerite workings/prison complex, giving way to the opulence of the Chapel/Wardens chambers the mission always had something new to see. In my opinion an example for all missions to follow.
TMA: Life of the Party- The thieves highway alone made for a full mission but the sprawling complex of Angelwatch at the end really was a showcase of LGS working around the engine restrictions of the time. True innovation is born from limitation and to me this mission was an exercise in pure art.
DS: Robbing the Cradle-atmosphere, immersion, storytelling. Entire games bearing the 'horror' classification brought less than this one mission did.
Out of the three I'd have to say that Life of the Party is the single best mission of the trilogy; so much going on, so much to do (read steal).
Sharga on 28/8/2014 at 02:05
Quote Posted by User 205
I presume you liked the Krushok citadel in DS?
I suppose I should have. I enjoyed it but it lacked something that the others had. Maybe the fact that it was inhabited by an intelligent species made it less of a "Garrett exploring on his own" sort of mission. Not sure really. It did have some pretty parts though from what I remember.
Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper
The Lost City is a gem. I agree, Thief 2 didn't have that feeling, it was all about sneaking around AI, and there was no exploration of creepy, ancient places. For me the best thing about T1 for was returning to places full of living people after a mission in a place devoid of life. I loved that sense of relief. Maybe that's why I loved Assassins :) After a trip to the Bonehoard taking down a major crime boss felt like a walk in the park.
Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper
I think that's it. For me Thief is a game about a fear of creepy, dangerous places. Almost half of T1 locations felt dangerous and maybe that's why I was so disappointed by T2: it had none of it.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Initially, when I played Thief as a High School freshman, those undead levels had me totally spooked. I actually dreaded going through them. I still remember that first zombie in Cragscleft laying on the ground terrifying me when he popped up. Even worse, the one outside of bonehoard: I knew, I just knew he had to be alive...but I still had to check just to make sure...bam! Can't tell you how high I jumped out of my seat.
In fact the only reason I happened to play the game in the first place was a friend who sold it to me for $5 because it was "too scary and real" for him. Getting to go back to a manor with normal human beings is a serious relief, just like getting into the Hammer prison is an emotional reward after making it through the haunted mines. Garrett is safe and comfortable around people, he knows how to deal with them. There is that balance of going between familiar surroundings and being totally out of your element that made the game so awesome.
Still, I do appreciate that T2 is its own experience. They didn't try to just copy T1 again, which is what some studios do with sequels. They went in an entirely new direction and I can appreciate that. It just wasn't a direction that I was particularly fond of. Still a great game though.
User 205 on 28/8/2014 at 10:53
I´m only into the downwinder Thieves guild but I already got some favourite missions from Thief Gold:
Craigsleft Prison, it got a great atmosphere and the placement of the hammers was pretty good. The only thing I can imagine that would have made this mission better would be to increase the zombies speed (when they are slow they aren´t really scary). It also got a nice little scare (I was running from a zombie and got into the tunnel with the shaking skull. The skull flew into my face from nowhere :eek: )
Assassins, a really big mission. The mansion felt organic and well designed. Also I loved the basement and the idea that you can follow a servant too his master. Also Raimerez pets were nice.
Surprises: I did not like Bafford´s Manor that much, it felt really artificial. Also I liked the Bonehoard not that much, it was sometimes confusing and again slow zombies :bored: But it liked the whole Indiana Jones flair of robbing tombs.
Thor on 28/8/2014 at 12:29
Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper
I think that's it. For me Thief is a game about a fear of creepy, dangerous places. Almost half of T1 locations felt dangerous and maybe that's why I was so disappointed by T2: it had none of it.
And after what Garrett experienced in the first game, going against mortal enemies and more "mundaine" problems felt like a walk in the park. Seriously, after you ventured into a half-forgotten mausoleum, full of walking corpses, after a trip to a mythical, burried city,or to a desacrated cathedral, full of undead priests, after a god ripped your eye out and after your descend into his realm to take it back... what kind of steam robot or religious fanatic is going to spook you?
Well, when you put it like that... However, it's only preferance in all truth. The only thing that T1 was scarier with was that Garrett got his eye ripped out. Magic is just science that we don't understand. So I consider zombies and robots equally frightening. In fact, to a younger me that wasn't familiar with much science fiction, robots were just as scary as zombies, because they were something unfamiliar. Only to the modern, experienced player robots may seem mundane.
Quote Posted by Sharga
In fact the only reason I happened to play the game in the first place was a friend who sold it to me for $5 because it was "too scary and real" for him. Getting to go back to a manor with normal human beings is a serious relief, just like getting into the Hammer prison is an emotional reward after making it through the haunted mines. Garrett is safe and comfortable around people, he knows how to deal with them. There is that balance of going between familiar surroundings and being totally out of your element that made the game so awesome.
Haha, and I as a kid always thought: "What? Is this guy crazy? Why am I going here?" (me thinking about Garrett) when going through undead areas. And soI always interpreted that Garrett knows what he's doing and he isn't scared by anyone or anything (unlike me). That he is just hardcore.
Quote Posted by Sharga
Still, I do appreciate that T2 is its own experience. They didn't try to just copy T1 again, which is what some studios do with sequels. They went in an entirely new direction and I can appreciate that. It just wasn't a direction that I was particularly fond of. Still a great game though.
Yeah, and I for one am glad they did it. Thank god they did, in fact.
Fallen+Keeper on 28/8/2014 at 14:24
Quote Posted by Thor
Yeah, and I for one am glad they did it. Thank god they did, in fact.
I can understand that, and maybe it's better than have a clone of T1... but again I would be more fond of T2 if they maintained the gritty visual style and made at least 1 mission about a creepy, scary place.
The only creepy thing in T2, in my opinion, were the servants - I still don't know if they were alive or undead.
SneakyGuy101 on 28/8/2014 at 15:20
Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper
I can understand that, and maybe it's better than have a clone of T1... but again I would be more fond of T2 if they maintained the gritty visual style and made at least 1 mission about a creepy, scary place.
The only creepy thing in T2, in my opinion, were the servants - I still don't know if they were alive or undead.
LGS had actually planned to release Thief 2 Gold but it never did happen because LGS went out of business before they could finish making it. There were going to be 5 new missions and they were going to tie into the story and change the storyline up a bit. One of the missions were going to be a scary mission with new undead enemies and lots of other horrifying things :ebil: Here's a link with further information: (
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_II_Gold) (BTW the mission is called "Waking The Dead")
Sharga on 28/8/2014 at 18:43
Quote Posted by User 205
I´m only into the downwinder Thieves guild but I already got some favourite missions from Thief Gold
You're in for some real treats my friend... :cool:
Quote Posted by User 205
Also I liked the Bonehoard not that much, it was sometimes confusing and again slow zombies :bored: But it liked the whole Indiana Jones flair of robbing tombs.
Faster zombies might have been more intense, but I enjoyed their slow, shambling ways. It would have changed the mood if zombies were running around willy-nilly tearing you apart. That's what I like about zombies: freaky but not too much of a threat unless they group up and corner you. Besides, they're just a build-up for a much faster undead....MWAHAHA!
Quote Posted by Thor
Magic is just science that we don't understand. So I consider zombies and robots equally frightening. In fact, to a younger me that wasn't familiar with much science fiction, robots were just as scary as zombies, because they were something unfamiliar. Only to the modern, experienced player robots may seem mundane.
Well I won't go into the whole magic is technology thing, but I think the two have a very different feel in Thief, and purposefully so. Robots and the undead share some similar qualities in that they're harder to deal with: you can't just blackjack 'em like people. But robots never scared me, they just annoyed me. Garrett seems to have some disdain for both magic and technology (and just about everything really) while still having to rely on both to survive.
Quote Posted by Thor
Haha, and I as a kid always thought: "What? Is this guy crazy? Why am I going here?" (me thinking about Garrett) when going through undead areas. And soI always interpreted that Garrett knows what he's doing and he isn't scared by anyone or anything (unlike me). That he is just hardcore.
Yeah, I rarely got the impression Garrett is scared.
Maybe when his eye is plucked, but who wouldn't be? Even then he recovers quickly. But there are certainly situations where he is more "in his element" than others.
Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper
I can understand that, and maybe it's better than have a clone of T1... but again I would be more fond of T2 if they maintained the gritty visual style and made at least 1 mission about a creepy, scary place.
Yep, yep, right there with ya.
Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper
The only creepy thing in T2, in my opinion, were the servants - I still don't know if they were alive or undead.
They still give me the shivers. Especially that little golden child. What
IS that thing? But it's a different kind of creepy, a deep uncomfortable one rather than a more primal sense of fear and endangerment.
Quote Posted by SneakyGuy101
LGS had actually planned to release Thief 2 Gold but it never did happen because LGS went out of business before they could finish making it. There were going to be 5 new missions and they were going to tie into the story and change the storyline up a bit. One of the missions were going to be a scary mission with new undead enemies and lots of other horrifying things :ebil: Here's a link with further information: (
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_II_Gold) (BTW the mission is called "Waking The Dead")
Wha-what?!?
Man, that would have been sweet! Sigh...:nono:
User 205 on 28/8/2014 at 19:15
Quote Posted by Sharga
You're in for some real treats my friend... :cool:
Faster zombies might have been more intense, but I enjoyed their slow, shambling ways. It would have changed the mood if zombies were running around willy-nilly tearing you apart. That's what I like about zombies: freaky but not too much of a threat unless they group up and corner you. Besides, they're just a build-up for a much faster undead....MWAHAHA!
Wha-what?!?
Man, that would have been sweet! Sigh...:nono:
Yeah, I´m especially looking forward too "the Sword" and "Undercover".
I think the zombies should have been like the Abysmal Gale zombies in Deadly shadows. Patrolling slowly but when your are discovered they run. That made for some really good scares and was more challenging as the slow moving zombies in the Bonehoard (I always ran around there, not even trying to stay hidden. The mission felt so avoid of challenge sometimes)
Fallen+Keeper on 29/8/2014 at 05:32
Quote Posted by User 205
I think the zombies should have been like the Abysmal Gale zombies in Deadly shadows. Patrolling slowly but when your are discovered they run.
Keep in mind that there are far fewer AIs in any T3 level than in T1 & T2 levels. Abysmal Gale was very very small compared to classic missions so having few shambling, slow walking corpses would not be enough.
