gamophyte on 24/5/2018 at 15:54
Hello ghosters,
I'm working on a horror fan mission, that I originally set to have completely ghostable. But the more I'm finding I wish to implement, the more I'm straying from ghosting.
Although, I'm not entirely sure what is okay by a ghoster, as when I play, I don't ghost, but rather neutralize nearly all the AI if I can.
As a ghoster, do you care if an AI attacks another AI as a part of objective?
Do you dislike objectives that chain react to killing an AI?
SlyFoxx on 24/5/2018 at 16:06
None of those things would bother me in the least, ghosting or not.
Yandros on 24/5/2018 at 16:17
A scripted AI battle is not a bust, but a normal one caused by the player is.
In general, though, I can tell you that most ghosters typically don't like it when authors take intentional measures to make their missions ghostable. The reason why is that it usually makes ghosting the mission too easy. I assume there's something more inherently rewarding about figuring out how to ghost a mission that was never intentionally designed with ghosting in mind.
However, I'm not a ghoster so you will want to hear from folks like Tannar, klatremus, marbleman and Peter Smith (who rarely pokes his head in here any more).
gamophyte on 24/5/2018 at 16:30
Quote Posted by Yandros
A scripted AI battle is not a bust, but a normal one caused by the player is.
Well, it derives from a objective so the player might feel responsible. I'll see what others say.
Quote Posted by Yandros
I assume there's something more inherently rewarding about figuring out how to ghost a mission that was never intentionally designed with ghosting in mind.
I never thought about that, that makes sense.
marbleman on 24/5/2018 at 17:41
As a ghoster, I like a good challenge, and indeed, missions that weren't made with the mode in mind are sometimes very fun to ghost.
That said, I do dislike AI battles for two reasons:
1) The alertness level of fighting AIs increases to an unfair degree, and even after they are done, their sensitivity doesn't go away. As a result, sneaking around them becomes frustrating rather than challenging. A prime example I have is when a guard who was recently involved in a battle saw me with his back from 20 meters away when I barely stepped out of the shadow.
2) Fighting AIs are beyond the player's control. A designer can set up a fight, but how it will unravel and what will be its outcome is usually random and unpredictable. Such scenarios require a lot of saving and reloading.
As a result, all that's required to deal with such sitations in missions is not skill or creativity, it's mostly luck.
gamophyte on 24/5/2018 at 18:57
Thank you for everyone's feedback. I am reworking the objective flow to a more satisfactory outcome. I think now anyhow, that the fighting I had in mind would be out of place, so likely to not have it. But some actions will kill AI indirectly.
marbleman on 24/5/2018 at 19:03
Killing of AIs indirectly or even directly is not a big deal if it can be done stealthily and with some degree of control. Killing the haunts in Return to the Cathedral is one of the most rewarding experiences I've had while ghosting.
FireMage on 24/5/2018 at 20:03
I'm ghosting with no Ko or Alert3 allowed.
Doing an AI fight is in many case a very wrong idea because in most of the case it breaks all your chance to cross the place without getting spotted. It become too hard.
BUT, I'm not against such a thing. All I want is a fair way to cross despite the fight and I'm still waiting for the mission that will give something interesting with fights.
As solution, I think there are at least two method :
-AI calm down faster
-Or there is a path well designed to see the fight but never having it interfering with us as long as we are stealthy
So If you do it, you should do it very carefuly with alternative ways or modified AIs to make it interesting/challenging instead of unfair. It's an hard thing to do so I never found a mission doing it correctly.
gamophyte on 24/5/2018 at 21:53
These are very good considerations thanks again. I revamped my story and yes as I said, it actually isn't a good plot point to do what I was going to do with the fight. Like I actually finally saw, that it didn't make sense.
Also because of the feedback, I know have a completely stealth answer to the aforementioned "objectives that chain react to kill AI".
Thank you! Any further input on AI in the light of objectives, with stealth in mind, feel free. The discussion helps.
skacky on 25/5/2018 at 02:05
I don't always play ghost but I certainly agree with marbleman about the twitchy AI after a fight. This can be very frustrating even when you're not ghosting. the T2X mission Into The Fray features a lot of AI battles and sneaking through it is a chore because of their heightened senses and instantaneous alerts.
