Galaer on 7/11/2021 at 20:51

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RUINED

PART 2

Even with dml fix I start this mission with 4/4 secrets. This is much easier mission to ghost. If you complete loot objective before completing other objectives, then after completing these objectives, mission will finish prematuraly. That's why I'm leaving Skull of St. Gregor as last objective. Thanks to that I'm skipping well lighten area with fire elemental and jumps on metal pipes over lava while carrying 2 heavy golden skulls. About these skulls - to complete their objectives you must just touch these skulls and drop them. There is no need to carry them with you. Because of skip I'm also not gonna grab 3 crystals at the end.

There are 2 tricky places to ghost; roof near Tower and Hall X. Roof is patrolled by 2 thieves. One of them has Monastery key you need. There is couple of shadows, but only shadow with bush is safe. Go there and wait to steal a key, then use door near Tower to continue. Hall X has 2 light haunts. They turn on lights in this area and kill rat. That's why they are sensitive. You must hide from them behind walls. Otherwise they will spot you from far away.

To get to Store where secret passage is located you must go to hedge maze and rope up to south hedge, then go west and open grate to Store. After grabbing book from Hall X, fast turning Mechanist in front of Store vanishes, so you can leave that way. To get to Crypt you must slash banner (ghost bust #1). I guess author in his readme when he mentioned mission is meant to be ghostable, was focused only on avoiding 2nd alerts and not damage property.

To get to zombie area in Vault you must shoot holy water at 2 statues. Be careful as zombies may 2nd alert to that. Also Mechanist will come here, stand in front of door and then run away. It's scripted event. He doesn't react that away 2nd time you use holy water arrows to open this door. Don't lock outside gate or he will be stuck running into it. Also you can block door from closing by dropping potions, but it will lead to scripted event with Mechanist to repeat after every reload.

STATS:

Time: 1:00:34; Loot: 6320/6520
Pockets Picked: 5/6; Locks Picked: 12
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 8/4

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

klatremus on 8/11/2021 at 05:31

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It's not about what I choose, but what the rules say. I remember discussing with Peter Smith regarding natural items that had clearly been placed in locations for a specific use. We mentioned how if there were readables explaining that those items were deliberately placed by someone, it would count as a bust. But we never ended up implemented that in the actual rules, so it doesn't matter. That's the reason for me mentioning that about Zilfin's boulders outside the room with his contact book. I agree in retrospect that it is not a bust. However I do think that objects that are used as part of a bigger assembly/mechanism/machine would be part of someone's property and a bust. That is one of the reasons I count the crystal in Mission 2 a bust to destroy. Since that it is the only (possible) bust in that mission, I will claim it a bust in my part 2 video that I will do soon, but then ask viewers to comment on what they think. Ultimately, it is sometimes good to have opposite opinions like you and I. It keeps us from veering too far in either direction, since we balance out our playthroughs in a way.



I actually thought about doing something like this when I playtested, but somehow forgot about it when ghosting. I guess since I had so many other busts it didn't feel important. I'm not sure if I think it is a bust to let the spiders out. I counted it as ok in my recording, but I always felt it wasn't all that right. However, it is a script that changes their patrol route, and the rules speak of AI behavior changing from scripts as being excused. However, Garrett is directly involved in opening the cage, so I see your point. I was more thinking since Garrett is only opening the cage, he is not doing anything to change their route, that is only triggered as a subsequent script by the author. Tricky one that. But running away to the teleporter immediately should fix that, especially if waiting until the patrollers are past the point where the spiders end up. When returning from Bantar's lab, they usually all patrol together in succession anyway.

klatremus on 9/11/2021 at 01:05

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Thanks for your recent reports, Galaer. I have updated the Unreported FMs list in the second post to include those missions where the reports have dead links. There were around 25-30 of them, some of which were Dark Mod, but the others were Thief 2. So there are a few extra missions in there now, all marked in red.

I still think the crystal is supposed to be a part of the whole magical mechanism in there, which breaks once all the deity stones are placed. I see it almost like an extension of the red metal framework. I know you think differently.

lordhern on 13/11/2021 at 01:19

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MISSION 1 - Lonmore South

There is no loadout.

On expert you don't start with a sword (not needed anyway)

Play method - ironman no reload ghost attempt.

Starting from the apartment I exit a window, mantled onto the cable, rope-arrowed up to the roof to pick the purse of the patrolling sword guard (pick 1)
dropped down to cable and looted the top floor of the hotel via attic hole (secret #1)
rope-arrowed over to the spooky apartment, found a key and two vases/urns/whatever on top floor.

Dealing with the green spider was almost a bust - I was able to dodge the wandering little spider using the pure-dark hiding spot in the hallway and lept over the railing to mantle-drop from the cabinet silently to pure dark area in dining room. Green spider 1st alerted but nothing more - waited six full minutes for it to settle and used a moss arrow to cushion the floor in the hallway. When the spider rotated to face the table I did a strafe-run-leap over the table grabbing the goblet mid-air and landed silently in perfect shadow with no additional first alert from the green spider.

the room of columns has the spooky AI that is scripted at a threshold point, and what looks like a rust spider that patrols the perimeter. I used the left hand path and when the spider was approaching my hiding spot i moved around the corner and took the two candlesticks (Supreme busts #1 and #2 - removed light sources) and strafe-crouch-run-tap through the lit up area to a first alert chirp from that patrolling spider.

Downstairs I grabbed the front-door key, two loot items and in the closet grabbed the attic key, and as soon the spider cleared the area I grabbed the coin revealed by the moved couch. I returned the attic key to the storage room as I don't need the ladder - I exited the front door and entered the police station dodging the patrolling guard on the patio.

No issues with the police station I was able to loot the safe without any alerts from the stationary nor the patrolling first floor guard. I waited for the guard with the key to ascend the stairs - picked his pocket on the way up and followed him to the upstairs hallway.

when upstairs hall was free I used the key to open the captains office, grabbed the book (objective) and looted the safe. I lock-blocked the door and quietly dropped the key to the desk. I also checked the readables in the other offices - there is perfect shadow hiding spots w/o needing to turn off the lamps.

getting to the double door exit of the police station elicited a single first alert from the stationary guard at the wicket window as I approached it to pick it open to leave.

I followed the pathway to the front of the hotel and starting (home) building and when guard patrols were far enough away strafe-ran-mantled across to enter the suicide victims room via a window -I grabbed loot and Selma's key, didn't unblock door. exited apartment window and entered hallway window to approach Selma's apartment door - unlocked using the victims key, picked her key while she snored, grabbed the purse from window sill and the goblets. left her key on her bed, re-locked her front door and returned that key to the other apartment to drop the key close to where i found it. I circled all the way around the building quietly to enter the opposite building to grab a pearl necklace. mantled back to home building lower level returned to the other side and strafe-run-jump-mantled to the pathway.

Entered the ventilation shaft and looted the office (supreme bust loot item #3) - vase with flowers.
re-entered ventilation shaft exiting other side to pick open the storage room under Brigantias.

returning to the flowerbed level I rope-arrowed up to the top of the ventilation shaft building to grab a vase (secret)

followed the brickwork ledge to brigantias building - entered chimney and had to drop and strafe immediately to avoid damage.

read the readables in her kitchen then approached her room for a scripted conversiation. when that conversion ended I exited her appartment and lept to the flower boxes and looted the two appartments on the other side(found a library key and a cryptic postcard) grabbed a screenshot and return the postcard to the area (it fell to the floor)

EDIT continues.

Library

after the librarian I followed the floor boxes and patios to the noisy pipe and crept along to the library. The library key opens the exterior unpickable door and it opens all locked interior doors so no need to pick those doors. The library has two guards - one up and one down. their patrols are spaced enough to time them - no alerts from either. I grabbed the coins from the top floor and followed the clues to gain access to the book. needed to cycle upstairs and downstairs twice and grabed the loot from the lower floor on my way out from the library

Apartments near library - it's not possible to supreme and enter the apartment via the door closest to the libary - the man warming himself at the fireplace alerts to the door being picked so I entered via the other side of the building where the sleeping person doesn't alert to the door being picked. that apartment has two pieces of loot (one secret) and the guard between the apartments cycles in a short patrol and WILL alert to the doors being picked so supreme ghosters may need to skip the apartment with the man at the fireplace.

I took the first alert from the guard to loot the 2nd apartment (purse)

back to the west entrance - this is where I had my ghost bust - I was approaching the north lip with the closest two archers facing away - the archer on the next building over alerted to me and went into a search mode - I didn't hear him - i saw him too late as I was jump-mantling over to the "home" building I edged around to the building to the cable and again mantled over to the hotel.

From the hotel I dropped down to the museum roof and went south to the rooftop that has stairs to a lower level - when that archer was patrolling below I entered the octagonal tower to grab a fine wine and returned to enter the apartment on the other side of the rooftop - grabed the hidden loot (secret) and waited for patroling hallway guard to leave the area. When he left I went to the balcony, mantled onto the railing and strafe-jump-mantled to the warehouse fence, mantled onto the box then crouched behind the crates waiting for the guard to cycle at the balcony. picked open a crate for some loot then opened the west door and hid in the shadows waiting for the guard to come downstairs - when he was on the main floor I crept-strafe-run-tapped moving up the stars and looted the coins from that offic - there is no perfect shadow in that office so I mantled onto the vent-shaft and stayed close to the door - when the guard came back I silently dropped down behind him and left via the door and returned outside.

outside I left the bay door open - mantled onto boxes and onto the door - and opened the vent to go through the building (SLOWLY) to the far end - silently dropped to a pair of parallel pipes and crept along to the other end and silently dropped down to the balcony below - mantling unto the rails is tedious - you need to either drop LOUDLY or get a ping of full grip to then drop silently on the next one.

I read the note under the door picked it open and found a murder victim. looted the two candlesticks and a purse and picked a box to get the museum key.
left the appartment and contiuned balcony-rail-to-balcony to the other end with the ladder and climbed up - I had a bit of clang on the metal grating but no guards were nearby to alert. I went to the museum roof - roped down to an open hotel window to get a ring - returned to the roof and used the museum key to open the skylight in shadow. used a rope arrow to safely drop below - looted the place including disabling the two armed gas mines.

When I exited the musuem I went down the stairs to look for loot (none there) but there was a moss arrow and two bunny rabbits - I gave some yummy moss to the rabbits and then I made my way back to Brigantias appartment - grabbed the gear from her fireplace and went to the flower bed to grab her vault key then roped up to get to the ledge and finished looted the entire bank.

BANK: entered via open window on the top floor. there was one readable on a desk - I then hid in a perfect dark corner wating for the guard that patrols to enter and leave - crept to the door and listened for footsteps - was able to open the double doors without an alert - I went to the left and mantled onto a small table and waited to pick the belt of one of the guards. I looted the 3rd floor storage closets (picked the two doors with loot - the third door was a wasted lockpick) I looted the bar and made my way near the top of the stairs to open a secret switch while dodging guards and the camera then stealthily made my way to the far end and waited three cycles of patrols to enter the secret room to loot it.

note: your light gem can be fully red but when you are inside the secret room no-one can see you.

getting out and closing the door switch needed six cycles of the guards to co-incide with the camera cycle then proceeded down to the middle floor.

the middle floor has two offices that have stuff for the vault and a third room with loot.

the presidents desk has a readable and swich underneath that moves a painting with the switch that disables the vault laser beams (supreme bust implied but there is NO other way to get into the vault) the readable hints about the vault door code location - grabed a screenshot then looted the candlesticks from the dining room and went down to the vault. - the patroller on bottom and 2nd floors were no problem. got into vault room opened the foor and objectives complete and new objective "find window key" - looted everything and went back to 2nd floor - found Moira's office and hunted down the key in there. returned to the vault and unlocked the window "objective complete"

I reclosed the vault door. went to the 2nd floor and re-enabled the bank security in the security office, and dodged the guards and camera to leave.


Then I went to the basement storage under Brigantia's building, activated the teleporter and appeard next to the mechanist church and the mission ended.

STATS:

Time: 1:17:37; Loot: 10845/10845
Pockets Picked: 4/4; Locks Picked: 25
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 5/5

Results
Consumables used three moss arrows (one for my use, two to feed the cute bunnies)
Perfect thief : it is possible but failed ghost.
GHOST: FAILED but POSSIBLE I was busted by an archer going into search mode.
Supreme: failed as per above - don't know if it can be as there are scripted events that may or may not be a bust. I'll let Galaer/MarbleMan/Klatremus sort this out.
Perfect Supreme thief not possible - two loot items are light sources, and one vase leaves flowers askew so some loot must be skipped for supreme.

lordhern on 13/11/2021 at 02:03

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I thought perfect thief was all the loot, not tied to ghost - how should that be documented?