klatremus on 21/5/2022 at 03:59
Game:
Thief 2FM:
A Better TomorrowGhost -
Failed, but possible
Perfect Thief -
Failed, but possible
Supreme Ghost -
FailedPerfect Supreme -
FailedTime - 1:17:22
Loot - 2468/2468
Pockets Picked - None
Secrets - None
Locks Picked - 17
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0, Other Kills - 0, Bodies Discovered - 0
Consumables - None
See the entire report with screenshots (
https://www.klatremus.org/ABetterTomorrow.htm) here!
Loot list (
https://www.klatremus.org/ABetterTomorrow_L.htm) here.
YouTube let's play (
https://youtu.be/ZtnAiXlvuiY) here!
Comments:This is a horror mission for the 2012 fall contest, based on DrK's map from 4 years prior, Greenbay. It is a tense and spooky mission, right up my alley. I had just played Greenbay about a week prior, so I was well familiar with the grounds, which helped a lot. This was the contest winner by the way, although I don't think I've played any other missions from that event.
This was mainly a survival mission. I had to make my way to the Greenbay quarter and find 7 bags of food and water on the way. My exit was in the southwest part of the city, to the docks leading to Markham Isle. No loot requirement, although plenty of loot was found around the city.
UndergroundThe biggest problem in the mission came in the first power room. Once flipping the lever to the door, a beast spawned behind me, seemingly breaking through the gate. It spawned in hunt mode, but quickly settled. I could escape up the stairs before it appeared and thus avoid getting spotted. The door took a good 30 seconds before fully opening. In order to sneak out without detection, I had to drop in behind the beast and nudge it forward. It had odd idle movements and occasionally did a sudden jerk. That is when, if pushing against it, a small shift forwards occurred. Once I got it over to the foot of the stairs, I could sneak out safely. The bigger problem, however, was when dropping into the waterway below. Unfortunately, it heard the splash. I surfaced to listen for alerts and could hear it stomping around. I then tried pushing it even further, all the way over to the far corner (image below), but to no avail. It heard me every single time. Its detection level must have been cranked up, as water sounds usually don't travel that far. It was an early bust, but I kept pushing on.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/ABetterTomorrow_files/image001.jpgStreetsMost of the alleyways were easy to navigate, as the majority of the beasts patrolled lengthy distances. One apartment in the west gave me trouble though. As I walked into the bedroom to get a gold candlestick, a stationary beast spawned in the hallway outside (image below). In order to leave I had to use a ventilation shaft in the kitchen. The key to the kitchen door was in a pickable cabinet in the aforementioned bedroom. I found I could get the key, lock-block the kitchen door, and then return the key without ever triggering the beast, as long as I stayed off the carpet.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/ABetterTomorrow_files/image002.jpgNo issues until the mechanist library. When taking the docks key, Garrett uttered a line and a beast broke through the front doors downstairs. To avoid this I grabbed the key from the south side of the room. This did not trigger Garrett's audio nor the beast, which was highly desirable. I lock-blocked the door to the docks and returned the key immediately.
The final problem was in the flooded waterway leading to the sewers. Four more beasts were released. They were super fast, but not very alert. I could hide behind the side pillars and with short intervals move towards the exit (image below). Did this without alerts.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/ABetterTomorrow_files/image003.jpgNotes:- Had to nudge the first beast forward in order to leave through the door unseen. Supreme bust.
- Couldn't avoid a second level alert from the same beast as above. It always heard the splash into the water. Ghost bust.
UPDATE: Just a day after posting this report, WheretIB2 managed to find a way to avoid making a splash when falling into the water using flares. You can check out his video (https://youtu.be/U_wcPv47rOk?t=4) here. I have tried to replicate it, but been unable to. He says it took him a good 10 minutes of constant reloads to get it right, so it's mostly down to chance. At least it means this mission can be Perfect Thieved. Great work!lordhern on 22/5/2022 at 02:47
Quote Posted by Galaer
I noticed another mistake on reported list. It states that it was me who reported Reverse Robbery. It was actually lordhern.
Reverse Robbery has a new version (Directors Cut) that is available to report on.
Galaer on 22/5/2022 at 07:29
Quote Posted by lordhern
Reverse Robbery has a new version (Directors Cut) that is available to report on.
Yes, I know. I'm ghosting it right now and report will appear soon.
Galaer on 22/5/2022 at 18:29
REVERSE ROBBERY DIRECTOR'S CUT
Updated version of this mission has more loot and more secrets (I missed 2 of them), it has also couple of exclusive areas. The hardest challenge is getting Gilmor's collection. Room is patrolled by noble who stops in front of different treasures and watch them, then walks to different treasure. Room is visited by 2 knights (one goes to 1st floor and other visit small office). Knights can turn on light and light switch is located inside. There is no shadow in doorway, so you are exposed to enemies if you want to turn it off. Area near SW urn is well visible even if you turn off light. And the carpet at the middle is also a trap. If you walk on it you will make marble floor noise. So it's like there is no carpet. And that's not all, it's possible for noble to eventually get stuck in front of one of his treasures. In my run it was in front of golden skull. Because of that there was no way to enter gallery without being spot by noble.
So you must be fast with looting this room. First I moss floor to get quickly to SW urn and I also grab blue gem. Timing patrollers and noble is essential. When knights will leave room, turn off light and grab other 3 pieces of loot and quickly leave.
Other troublesome spot is in Ramirez Mansion. In his room is purse on high window. Problem is that the only shadow is near fireplace and you aren't safe near window. Ramirez can still spot you and he has short patrol route. So when he's starting walking away quickly climb to window, take purse, descend and hide in shadow. And you also need to worry about guard visiting this room.
In underground part of Mausoleum there is trap that closes wall you used to enter. To avoid triggering this trap you can stack objects to mantle on corner statue. To do it I used single flare. I went on "X" tile, turned away from statue and dropped flare while looking down. This way flare is gonna levitate in air and I can jump twice to position myself on it's highest spot. Next jump will be backward jump, so turn around towards statue and jump. This way backwards jump will turn into forward jump, which allows you to mantle on statue. The same trick I also used to grab secret purple box on top of entrance of Clock House. Also if you want to avoid 1st alert from haunts quickly open and close sarcophagus. Then you can open it safely.
Last tricky part is watchers control in Bank. Turning off levers will disable all watchers for 10 min. But if there is some time towards deadline and you are going to turn on watchers and then turn them off, then 1st time limit is still active, so watchers will be disabled only for remaining time instead of 10 min. For example: if watchers were deactivated for 8 min and you turn them back on and disable all of them, watchers will be disabled for remaining 2 min. In other words it's better to wait until levers will turn on automatically instead of doing it manually.
STATS:
Time: 2:10:21; Loot: 7556/8309
Pockets Picked: 16/16; Locks Picked: 21
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 22/24
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE
Galaer on 22/5/2022 at 18:30
CIRCLE OF STRAIN 1
Aborted by Vanguard due mission containing eternal darkness. Next year he returned with knowledge how to edit lighting in Dromed. And that's the reason why I decided to ghost this mission - to check what makes this mission so hard without editing lighting.
From what I noticed there is one vase (worth 100) on fireplace concealed by darkness. In Newdark you can mantle into windows of outside houses, so there is no need to picklock doors. Just like Vanguard I had the most problems with getting torc. I decided to take it from 2nd floor. Doused 1 torch behind stationary guard, then ran to dark spots on narrow path. In these dark spots you are safe from patroller. But you will need to wait for guards to calm down after 1st alert or they will spot you. Go to the end and drop down to grab torc, then mantle on concealed by darkness statue to return to 2nd floor. Also looks like there is a bug with torc objective - it gets completed whenever you complete loot objective.
STATS:
Time: 0:17:32; Loot: 2052/2052
Pockets Picked: 3/6; Locks Picked: 6
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS
klatremus on 22/5/2022 at 22:08
Updated with the last reports from Galaer. I also edited my report on A Better Tomorrow to inform readers about the way to avoid the Ghost bust in that mission. I have not been able to, but WheretIB2 showed me how. See the link at the end of that report.
klatremus on 23/5/2022 at 02:28
I just read his report and although I don't have all the details since I haven't played the mission, it does sound like there are busts there, as you are instigating fights between enemies, and that is directly disallowed following rule #5 "Garrett must not cause suicides of AI or melees that intentionally cause AI to attack each other, with the exception of rule 12." Rule #12 doesn't apply because these fights aren't caused by scripts, as in you just walking into a room and starting a sequence, but this is where I don't know enough. Are you luring the elementals into a room with the craymen? The report says the craymen get alerted, but that is not from Garrett but from the fire elementals and undeads fighting, but those are fights you have to initiate. Am I correct here? I think you two are better at judging this since I haven't played it, but at least now I've tried to explain the principles.
lordhern on 23/5/2022 at 05:40
Quote Posted by Galaer
REVERSE ROBBERY DIRECTOR'S CUT
...
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE@Galaer - you are correct that perfect ghost is possible as I was successful in my run.
my statistics.
Time: 2:51:33; Loot: 8309/8309
Pockets Picked: 16/16; Locks Picked: 20
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 24/24
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS
The only real delta between my results compared to your run was the remaining loot, two additional secrets, I didn't bother to disable the watchers in the bank; plus I found "confession" evidence during my run and put it on the desk of the investigator in the police office for a hidden objective.
My method to ghost the lost treasure room is enter the room from the storage side, mantle onto the plinth then mantle up to the rafters while the noble is away and the guards elsewhere. once I get to a dark area I tossed the scouting orb into the doorway of the storage room to help time guard position before I started my looting of the tables. I used rope arrows to lower down and grab loot and return up to the rafters when the cost was clear.
I had no issues with the mausoleum crypt - I just used the available rubble to stack high enough to mantle onto the statue - the ghostly apparitions that appear momentarily on the coffin lid opening are scripted - not alerts.
I think my lower lock pick count might be the door between the church nave and the rest of the property as I went around the long way via the small cemetery back entrance
I had no issues looting the bank vault - I used the scouting orb I picked up to time my exit.
marbleman on 23/5/2022 at 10:08
Quote Posted by klatremus
I just read his report and although I don't have all the details since I haven't played the mission, it does sound like there are busts there, as you are instigating fights between enemies, and that is directly disallowed following rule #5 "Garrett must not cause suicides of AI or melees that intentionally cause AI to attack each other, with the exception of rule 12." Rule #12 doesn't apply because these fights aren't caused by scripts, as in you just walking into a room and starting a sequence, but this is where I don't know enough. Are you luring the elementals into a room with the craymen? The report says the craymen get alerted, but that is not from Garrett but from the fire elementals and undeads fighting, but those are fights you have to initiate. Am I correct here? I think you two are better at judging this since I haven't played it, but at least now I've tried to explain the principles.
You frob a brazier and it starts spawning fire elementals. They go on patrol. Craymen also patrol, so eventually they see each other and fight.
