Galaer on 1/3/2024 at 18:57
Quote Posted by klatremus
Let me ask you this, Galaer: If you had to break in the door to the murderer's house or slash a banner in order to get into the bedroom and that was the only way in, would you allow that for Ghost?
It's obvious for me that you didn't took yout time to read my comment at all. Pretty much in 1st paragraph I mention that rule about KO-ing AI or slashing banner is to prevent player excusing busts for the sake of entering area where objective gets completed. Therefore your situation is definitely a ghost bust. For example: in mission 9 I KO-ed 2 guards to get access to prison and I counted this a ghost bust. In mission 5 I KO-ed 1Mechanist at starting point and I counted this as ghost bust. In mission 1 I'm destroying window and wooden planks in order to get special loot that completes loot objective and finish mission and I count these actions as ghost busts. In Garrett's Nightmare I'm forced to slash banner to get to area with key, which completes objective and I still count that as ghost bust. But this situation is different as murderer doesn't block entrance to any new area. No, the only reason I KO him is in order to start scripted interrogation, which completes objective.
Quote Posted by smithpd
I agree with Klatremus on this point. It was agreed when this exception to the rule first came out that any violation of a basic ghosting rule can be approved only if the violation is explicitly required by a mission objective. The knockout is not a mission objective, so it is a bust. Furthermore, I think that "I had to do it to complete the mission" it's not a valid. Thinking back, I think a lot of the exceptions we agreed to made things unnecessarily complicated.
You too didn't read my comment at all. Let me remind you that Kidnap Cavador objective is excused in the rules despite not stating that you must KO him. And let me guess, what's your reasoning is - it's because LGS created these objectives. If LGS would create interrogation objective it would be excused, but unfortunately they only made kidnap objective. So shouldn't this rule mention that only kidnap objectives are allowed to KO someone? Why they do not state that? Why kidnap objective is just an example? Well, reason is simply - this rule is worded like that to give player general idea what it is about, so later they he will check if new situation is in spirit of this rule. And let me tell you, this interrogation objective is definitely in spirit of this rule.
But I wonder if I should continue writing these comments. It's pretty obvious nobody read them.
klatremus on 2/3/2024 at 01:11
Quote Posted by Galaer
It's obvious for me that you didn't took yout time to read my comment at all. Pretty much in 1st paragraph I mention that rule about KO-ing AI or slashing banner is to prevent player excusing busts for the sake of entering area where objective gets completed.
I asked precisely for that reason, to confirm what I thought. You are interpreting that rule to only apply when you are physically blocked from getting to the objective, but that is not what it means. "Standing in the way of meeting another objective" is what it says, which doesn't necessarily only mean physically. It can mean an event that has to happen in order to trigger something that allows the objective to occur. Which is exactly what happens here. The murderer stand in the way of the objective being completed because he is conscious. You have to blackjack him in order to meet the objective, thus he is "standing in the way" of completing the objective, just not literally.
But all that is completely besides the point, because as both Peter and I say,
it is not explicitly stated in the objective to knock him out. That is the more important aspect here. You keep comparing to "Kidnap Cavador". Kidnapping someone means to grab him and bring him somewhere else, it's just another word for picking him up. When someone reads that objective, they automatically know it means he has to be blackjacked or gassed. Thus the wording in the objective explicitly implies he has to be made unconscious first, without a person ever having played the mission before. If the objective in Detective had read: "Capture the murderer and find out who is working behind the scenes" then it would imply you have to incapacitate him somehow, because capturing him implies physically interacting with him. But it doesn't say that. In fact, when I saw that objective the first time, I thought I had to find a readable somewhere or overhear a conversation. I had no idea it means blackjacking him. I didn't even have a clue this had to take place at the murderer's house. So there is no way the wording in that objective explicitly says he has to be interrogated, or blackjacked, or made unconscious in any way.
Quote Posted by Galaer
Let me remind you that Kidnap Cavador objective is excused in the rules despite not stating that you must KO him. And let me guess, what's your reasoning is - it's because LGS created these objectives. [...] And let me tell you, this interrogation objective is definitely in spirit of this rule.
Also, I hate to play the seniority card, but I have been ghosting and applying the ghost/supreme rules since 2003. Peter has done so longer than that and even helped write the original set of rules. The way you are talking, it doesn't seem like you are aware of that.
I will not be commenting any more on this topic.
Galaer on 2/3/2024 at 12:03
Since you wanted confirmation, then I will tell you that 90% of my ghost busts is because my path gets blocked by AI or property. I believe that this rule states that in physical way. Also notice that this rule "Any mission objective that explicitly demands that the player break one of the rules above is OK to complete and does not bust the ghost." doesn't mention that wording of objective must demand certain action. And about this rule "It is not acceptable, however, to incur a ghost bust that the player thinks is "necessary" to meet another objective" notice that word "necessary" is in quote. This means that this rule question player's knowledge of what is necessary to complete these objectives. In other words if it's about extra ghost busts that player thinks are necessary to complete objective, but in reality they aren't necessary for it's completion. Let's look into Kidnap Cavador objective again. You need to KO him and that's excused. However new player could think that gassing his bodyguards is also excusable by this objective. This rule is to prevent player from doing extra ghost busts outside of actions absolutely necessary to trigger objective completed message.
Also I hate to use my experience card, but I reported many times more missions than both of you brought together. Mission 7 objective "get him outside the monastery" also doesn't state that you need to KO anyone. When starting this mission you can only think that you only need to open his cell and excort him to exit. This objective doesn't say anything about KO. You do that only because it's absolutely necessary, because Mayor doesn't want to cooperate. That's your whole reason. There is also Follow instructions objective from Keeper's Training. This objective also doesn't state kind of actions and ghost busts are explicitely demanded by this objective. You excuse every ghost bust again, because that's the only logical way to complete this objective. So player who started this mission will have no idea that these instructions will force him to do ghost bust. In fact, when I saw that objective the first time, I thought this will be purely stealth training. Get Air Talisman objective doesn't tell you at the beginning of the mission you will need to launch alarm and alert every Hammerite in cathedral. This script is allowed, but why? Because this script is absolutely necessary to trigger in order to complete this objective. In conclusion it doesn't matter what you think at the beginning of the mission. What matters is what completes objective at the end. Also I realize now rules allow certain level of flexibility in excusing busts for OMs objectives. Why then this flexibility isn't allowed for FMs?
Also Your "Capture the murderer and find out who is working behind the scenes" example is also flawed, because capture is synonym of kidnap. Therefore you only excuse kidnap objectives. This proves my point that you both are too stuck in the past to adapt to creativity of FMs. Can you give me examples of other excused objectives that weren't created by LGS (and not using synonyms of words from LGS objectives)? I bet you can't. It's impossible for you. So let me give you examples of these objectives myself.
A) Sabotage Lord Bafford - this objective doesn't exactly explain what you need to do to sabotage Lord Bafford. If this objective is only completed by breaking all art pieces in exhibition room, then this damage property should be excused by this objective even though objective doesn't state what you need to do. However smashing door to exhibition room or alerting guard by noise of smashing art pieces shouldn't be allowed. These are extra ghost busts that do not complete this objective in any way. Therefore you are forced to complete this objective with minimal amount of ghost busts.
B) Distract everyone in dining room - if the only way to complete this objective is by alerting everyone in dining room for example with arrow shot into wall, then you are excused to do it. However you should try to do this action with minimal amount of ghost busts - in other words it would be the best if this arrow was the only thing you use. Also you aren't allowed to alert anyone outside dining room with this arrow.
C) Lure Mechanists to Pagans - if there is no other way than alerting Mechanists, then you are allowed to do that. But you need to do it with minimal amount of ghost busts, so try to minimize amount of time you alert Mechanists. Also you aren't allowed to alert anyone else other Mechanists or let lured Mechanists alert alert or infight anyone else. Of course fight between Pagans and Mechanists is excused as consequence of completing objective.
In conclusion this rule should be stated as "Excused objective must be completed with minimal amount of ghost busts. Player isn't allowed to abuse them to do extra ghosts outside of what is absolutely necessary to complete these objectives. However if there is other method to complete these objective that doesn't require any ghost bust, player must prioritize it". I think this is healthy limitation to prevent player from abusing this rule. That's what you are worrying, right?
lordhern on 2/3/2024 at 18:19
Quote Posted by Galaer
...But I wonder if I should continue writing these comments. It's pretty obvious nobody read them.
I read them. I enjoy watching the various attempts to tilt at windmills. (yes I make popcorn!) :p
klatremus on 9/3/2024 at 21:53
Game:
Thief 1FM:
The Black Parade, Mission 4: Death's DominionGhost -
SuccessPerfect Thief -
SuccessSupreme Ghost -
SuccessPerfect Supreme -
FailedTime - 1:49:17
Loot - 2891/2891 (Supreme: 2576)
Pockets Picked - 5/5
Locks Picked - 2
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Consumables - 1 Holy Water Vial (avoidable) & 2 Water Arrows (1 of each for Supreme)
See the entire report with screenshots (
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4.htm) here!
Loot list (
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_L.htm) here.
YouTube let's play (
https://youtu.be/i4cuiOjnXEc) here!
Comments:This is an outstanding mission and a clear nod to The Dark Project's ‘Down In the Bonehoard'. Although I am a big fan of the original, I think this mission surpasses it in quality. It's more tightly designed, claustrophobic even, but with a very clever layout. An ingenious move is to have more enemies appear the longer you play the mission, which increases the difficulty as you keep running out of resources. The non-linear design and numerous path choices make this one of the very best fan missions I have ever played.
I had to break into the Stonemarket catacombs and find three precious items: a sapphire necklace from the Noirequier family, a piece of Symon Albrecht's armor, and a ruby called Adrius' Demise. I also needed 1,600 worth of valuables, as well as returning to the starting position. Time to raid some tombs.
CatacombsI am not going to describe the route I took through this mission, as that would be near impossible, and make a very tedious read. A few things forced my hand for Supreme, mostly the location of stationary enemies, especially sleeping zombies. In addition, quite a few loot items needed to be skipped for Supreme, as they triggered unavoidable traps, which isn't allowed for that mode. Check the notes section towards the end of the report for a list of all skipped loot. I will not mention all of them in the main text. The first one came in the initial crypt at the top level of the catacombs (image below). I thought the vase in Grimworth's tomb also had to be skipped for the same reason, but shooting his crypt with a holy water arrow first disarmed the trap. This was actually part of a side quest to create a holy sword, but it had the neat side effect of increasing the possible loot count for Supreme. I ended up using a holy water vial from one of the initial crypts, but you can use the fallen font in this room instead and make it down to Grimworth's before it wears off. I wasn't aware of that until after finishing my run.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image001.jpgI actually dropped into the flooded grotto from the bottom of the Grimworth extension and looted my way up through the North Lower Tombs. The bottom level of the lower floors, around the entrance to the Noirequier crypts was difficult. Three patrolling zombies and quite a bit of direct light had to be passed through. Really tense and with great ambience to boot.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image002.jpgThe biggest problem on the upper floors in the North Tombs was a stationary hammer priest zombie just behind the waterfall on the top level (image above). He prevented movement up or down the ramp to his right (south). He also gave first alerts if I moved too fast in the light where the screenshot is taken from. I got into the east crypt unseen, but due to the sleeping zombie in here, I had a hard time taking the statue in the hanging cage. I ended up mantling the bench and furthermore the sarcophagus, then I could lean in and take it (image below). That way I got elevated above the sleeper's level. Sleeping zombies only alert to proximity movement close to the ground. If you get up a few feet, they don't react. Plus they are completely deaf, which really helps.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image003.jpgI eventually worked my way back up to the top floor. No issues until trying to reach a rug in a casket beyond another sleeping zombie (image below). I found a quite predictable way of mantling a few ledges coming from the floor above to the west. It was possible with some acrobatics to get back past the zombie for Supreme, but it was difficult. I instead dropped through the hole beyond the traps to the level below.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image004.jpgNext came a situation that forced me to alter my route quite a bit. A gold vase in a caged crypt had to be accessed from a different part of the tombs by crossing a chute. This was no problem until I tried to return the same way, where a sitting sleeping zombie had now spawned (image below). This one was absolutely impossible to get past without a growl, so I was forced to drop down the chute into the grave warden's vigil way down in the south tombs.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image005.jpgClose to the vigil was another item skipped for Supreme, a golden skull in a burning brazier (image below). It dealt 3 points of damage when taken, and although damage is only frowned upon for regular Ghost, it is disallowed for Supreme. Putting out the fire first made it possible to obtain unscathed, but that removed a light source and was equally illegal.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image006.jpgBeyond the TombsHeading for the gambling den I had to pass a few snakes. One was stationary on the bank by a waterfall, and I thought initially it would make me unable to pass. I was hugging the left wall and sneaking slowly, but as soon as I hit the light, it squealed. Then I realized the opposite side of the doorway, the side closest to the snake, was much darker (image below). In fact, I would hit complete darkness before entering its view. Escaping once I knew this was easy.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image007.jpgThe den itself was quite straightforward, bar a purse on an axe guard upstairs. It could only be taken by opening the door directly behind him, which spawned a first alert. I could take the purse through the door with no alert, but that is generally considered an engine exploit and not a viable option for Supreme. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to leave via the candle shop as that meant I couldn't replace the boulder in the sewers for Supreme (image below). I tried various methods, but never got close to having it actually block the door. I thus made the long way back through the catacombs and ended in the streets where I started. WheretIB2 found you can actually place the boulder on top of the door and then when you close it, the boulder falls down and blocks the door. Thus, it is possible to leave via the gambling den for Supreme after all. What an awesome mission this was!
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade4_files/image008.jpgNotes:- Had to skip a vase worth 50 in the very first crypt in the catacombs for Supreme. It was protected by fireball traps and they were impossible to avoid.
- Had to skip a diamond worth 100 in the Belor vault for Supreme. Again, the loot was protected by a trap.
- Skipped a golden skull worth 100 in a burning brazier in the south lower tombs for Supreme. Taking it dealt damage, which isn't allowed for that mode, and neither is cooling it by putting out the flames.
- Skipped a gold candlestick worth 50 in the south lower tombs for Supreme. It was a light source in addition to triggering a boulder trap.
- Skipped a purse worth 15 on a stationary guard in the gambling den for Supreme. He alerted to the door behind him opening.
klatremus on 17/3/2024 at 01:43
Game:
Thief 1FM:
The Black Parade, Mission 5: The BrandGhost -
SuccessPerfect Thief -
SuccessSupreme Ghost -
SuccessPerfect Supreme -
FailedTime - 1:48:27
Loot - 3128/3128 (Supreme: 3126)
Pockets Picked - 4/4
Locks Picked - 4
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Consumables - None
See the entire report with screenshots (
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade5.htm) here!
Loot list (
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade5_L.htm) here.
YouTube let's play (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiVqJx2CteI) here!
Comments:Another stellar mission in this masterful campaign. This a throwback to The Haunted Cathedral, but again the mission is better than the original. A nicely laid out map balancing safe streets with infected ruins and a haunted mansion. It's perhaps on the easier side, but also extremely atmospheric and immersive.
I had to find my way across the barricades and into the sealed section of Old Quarter. Once there, I had to locate the Hawtrey manor and steal 7 family portraits, along with the amethyst laid harp. During the night I also had to pick up 1,500 in loot, plus make it back to the starting point.
StreetsNothing to report from the southwest streets. The guards didn't alert to me, except for the ones on the rooftops. I didn't loot the alchemist yet, as this would require multiple extra picked locks. I knew of a way back that would circumvent those later. I entered the sealed section by dropping from Glendower's balcony. There were multiple other ways in also.
The first issue came in an abandoned house east of the small bridge by the barricades. A sleeping zombie in the bed gave a growl when I snuck in to steal two small coins on the floor (image below). Normally, you can grab a rock or a crate to stand on to avoid such busts, but this zombie was already elevated in the bed. For regular Ghost I could rush in to grab the loot with only a first alert, but Supreme had to skip these.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade5_files/image001.jpgManorNo further issues until I got to the manor. Both the back door and the cellar entrance were pickable. I wanted to avoid those. Luckily, I found I could rope up the tree just east of the main entrance (image below). One of the doors up there was unlocked, so that became my entry.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade5_files/image002.jpgI looted all the floors before getting branded. Along the way the only item of concern was a diamond on a semi-hidden attic balcony. When taken, several bones went flying and made an awful lot of noise. I didn't consider this property damage and I don't think any enemy got alerted in the process. However, a stationary apparition spawned in the ground floor ballroom to the east, though it didn't impact my progress. I considered the whole scenario acceptable for all ghost modes. The rest of the manor was easy to sneak through, so nothing to report. Left the building the same way I got in, by sliding down the branches of the tree.
Took the sewers heading back. This way I could loot the prison without having to pick the front door. There was a hidden way into the alchemist from the sewers also, which enabled me to circumvent that door too. After getting branded, a glyph gave access to a disgusting cellar with a back gate into his premises (image below). The deadbolt on his front door could also be relocked, so I could reset everything the way Supreme requires.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/TheBlackParade5_files/image003.jpgNotes:- Skipped two coins worth 2 in an abandoned house just past the barricades for Supreme. I couldn't avoid the growl from the sleeping zombie.
klatremus on 25/3/2024 at 03:54
Game:
Thief 2FM:
Patriot, Mission 8: DetectiveGhost -
FailedPerfect Thief -
FailedSupreme Ghost -
FailedPerfect Supreme -
FailedTime - 1:26:30
Loot - 700/700 (Supreme: 590)
Pockets Picked - 3/6
Secrets - 8/8
Locks Picked - 5
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 1
Damage dealt - 1, Damage taken - 0
Innocents Killed: 0, and others Killed: 1
Evidence found: 17/17 (Supreme: 16)
Consumables - 1 Invisibility Potion & 1 Broadhead Arrow (Supreme: None)
See the entire report with screenshots (
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8.htm) here!
Loot list (
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_L.htm) here.
YouTube let's play (
https://youtu.be/g5eMa8DbZQo) here!
Comments:This is an extremely clever and unique creation by Zontik. I don't think I've ever played a mission quite like it. Murder mystery maps are tough to pull off, but this is done in style. A well-built, yet simple city mission with a mesmerizing story and lots of creativity. A police station, a cathedral, and a time-warped lawyer's residence are just a few of the locations found in this gem. Go play it!
During my last job, Victoria had been murdered. My main goal was to find the identity and location of the killer. In doing so, I had to discover 14 pieces of evidence, of which there were 17 in total. There was no loot goal, and I was to end the night in one of two possible keeper locations.
WestThe west part of town was easy bar a couple of buildings. A residence southwest of the pub was pickable, but I avoided it by using two crates from the home apartment to reach the window (image below). The crates were very close to (but not on) a patroller's route, but they were in total darkness, so I counted it as ok. The patroller was a friendly cop anyway, but I'm not sure if that matters.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image001.jpgTo get into the police station without picking locks I used the same crates as before and made a small stack in the streets to the northeast (image below). From here I could easily jump onto the roof. Again I made sure not to put them on a patrol route and in the shade. Now I could get onto the second floor balcony and wait for a guard and block the door as he went inside. The building to the west I could access from the police station roof later via the window. This was the opposite way of the intended method, but it circumvented picking the front door then.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image002.jpgInside the station wasn't difficult except for one area. I needed to overhear a conversation between some guards in the tower to obtain a piece of evidence. It started once I dropped back a loose board on the floor above. I could do that without making noise after a few tries, but the board didn't cover the hole back up perfectly. However, this wasn't possible to do because then it would fall down the hole and hit the guards in the head. My solution was then leaving it in the nearest possible location, and that is all Supreme requires. I had already looted the entire compound before this conversation, since it added an extra guard to the front office. When he emerged from the bedroom, I could block the door open in order to steal the key from the guard in here (image below). Unfortunately, this door couldn't be closed up without a first alert, plus the key would have to be returned later for Supreme, which wasn't possible without big busts. This key was the only way to reach a piece of loot later in the mission, so I skipped it for that mode.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image003.jpgThe whole pub scenario and permission slip also had to be skipped for Supreme. The front door guard first alerted to the door opening, even after allowing us entry. Such situations are unfortunate, because it's really caused by an engine limitation, since he is a neutral guard and not supposed to alert at all. This meant another 70 loot would have to be skipped, in addition to the evidence given by the bartender. This also meant that for Supreme, I'd have to find a different way into the eastern part of town. I found a very good way by climbing a gear next to the well to the south (image below). The archer up here didn't care about my presence, and this route could easily be taken both ways.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image004.jpgEastI ended up using the same crates as I had before to enter another building at the south end of the canal (image below). If not, I'd have to pick the lock on the nearby house and also take a key from the pants on the clothesline. It couldn't be returned besides to the ground below, so the crates seemed cleaner for Supreme. There was a patroller going through here, but he walked around the boxes by a few feet, plus they were in the dark.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image005.jpgUsed the canal to travel further north, utilizing a convenient ladder to get out. Cleaned the lawyer's and the baker's easily enough. I did not end up blackjacking Philip. Dealing damage isn't allowed unless it is explicitly instructed or heavily implied in the objectives. I didn't even have an objective to justify it until after the fact. I did end up taking Violet's doll in the small patch of grass outside Philip's house. It required taking a rope arrow in order to get out of that area, but I felt this was justified as it meant getting two additional evidences. I treated those almost like loot, where we had an objective to get a certain amount, yet more existed. Only 15 was found before entering the cathedral, and you need 13 for the cathedral door to open. The pub had to be skipped and if we also skip the two doll evidences, we were suddenly one below the required amount. Galaer found a way to circumvent this by taking the 13th evidence by breaking the mission's sequence. This is ok if you don't value the extra evidence and have no need for the rope, but I did.
I did not enter the alchemist's for any Ghost mode. It required shooting a window latch with a broadhead arrow, and although this could be done without alerts, it yielded no extra loot or evidence; it only provided more weapons and a book. This book was required to reach the bonus mission later in the campaign, but I already knew that couldn't be done without property damage, so it was pointless.
Returned the crates to my apartment before entering the cathedral. Nothing to report from there or the catacombs.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image006.jpgSteel EndIn order to reach the murderer's house unseen, I had to do a weird mantle over some bushes outside the abandoned chapel (image above). This took me up to a ledge above the next plaza which was way too lit up to avoid getting spotted (image below). This is where the key from the police station tower mentioned earlier worked. The door was in direct view of a stationary watch guard. The only way to get through it for Ghost was by using the invisibility potion from the alchemist. I thus went back and fetched it for that mode. Supreme had no chance of reaching it and getting the drill bit in there. I tried without using the potion by dropping from the parapet above, but the guard both saw me and heard me take fall damage.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image007.jpgEntering the murderer's house sounded like I took damage, but no loss of health registered. Entering the bedroom, there was only one way to proceed in the mission: by blackjacking the murderer. This was not stated in the objectives and thus an inevitable bust for Ghost. “Find out who is working behind the scenes” was the objective I was following, but that was way too vague to justify dealing damage of any kind. Knocking him out was definitely intended from a story perspective and thus an easy bust to accept. I tried using a gas arrow, but that just failed the mission. Likewise was getting spotted by him prior to the knockout. At one point, I tried replaying the entire mission without triggering this objective, which spawned only when reading one of two hidden notes around town. Those could be skipped, thus all the objectives were done when entering the murderer's house. Problem was, the objective would then trigger again when opening the bedroom door. If I instead skipped the bedroom entirely, the keeper key used to end the mission didn't work, so I was back to square one. No matter, as this was a super fun mission to play and ghost, despite the bust so late in the run.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot8_files/image008.jpgNotes:- Had to skip the pub for Supreme, which meant 70 worth of loot missed. The front door guard alerted to the door opening.
- Had to skip a drill bit worth 40 in the industrial section towards the end for Supreme. Taking the key from the police station couldn't be done without a first alert, plus returning the key wasn't possible.
- Knocking out the murderer isn't explicitly stated in the objectives and is thus is a bust for all modes. Killing the murderer shortly after might be scripted, but still registered in the stats. There was no way around this event.
downwinder on 25/3/2024 at 06:58
hey klatremus what did you think of that house where time was slow and the machine in bottom of house, third wall breaking stuff i loved it
klatremus on 25/3/2024 at 12:57
I thought it was very cool, especially that it was a small story on its own, not tied to the mission's plot. Zontik is a master at stuff like that.