Dia on 18/6/2009 at 01:07

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I say each to their own. I will agree with pwyll that TDS had a good storyline and it definitely was in keeping with the previous two games. But there's where I stop agreeing. (Take that, sir!) The pros & cons of TDS have been argued until both sides are bloody, but all that's been accomplished is that we've more or less established two separate camps regarding TDS. Oh; and a few middle-of-the-fences as well. W h a t e v a r.

In any event, I still maintain that the girl in the TDS cutscene was nothing more than a prop used to illustrate that Garrett's story had come full circle. Not saying that his story ends there, mind you. Just that the little girl was of no consequence; hell, she could have been a little boy for that matter. Her brief appearance doesn't justify making her the main character for T4 by any means. And .... since Garrett IS the Master Thief, why in the world would EM want to make another Thief game that didn't feature our favorite anti-hero?




P.S.
SweetMotherofGod; somebody's got a nasty deathwish goin' on here. I won't mention any names, but his initials are pwyll. :ebil: :p :p

pwyll on 18/6/2009 at 04:45

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I love you, you know! :thumb:

Chade on 24/6/2009 at 00:20

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A thought on the girl ...

I don't like the idea of convieniently ignoring such a key symbol in Garrett's story. However, I would also prefer to play thief as Garrett. Finally, I can't imagine how the girl could be integrated into thief's gameplay as some sort of apprentice. But I believe I have an idea about how you could leave the girl in, be respectful of thief's history (in fact, repeat much of it), and still play as good old Garrett.

Garrett left the keepers after they had trained him, because he didn't like their idea of "balance". Garrett's own self interested go-with-your-gut approach turns out to be "balanced".

My suggestion is that Garrett continues to be our lovable self interested prick. He adopts the girl, teaches her to steal, uses her to accomplish his own goals, etc etc ... but all that happens as part of the backstory.

Just as garrett left the keepers and helped trigger the events in T1, the story of T4 starts when the girl leaves Garrett*. Perhaps the girl is idealistic, perhaps she is persuaded by an old keeper to do more to "keep the balance" in the city, or perhaps Garrett just doesn't treat her very well. Whatever it is, she leaves Garrett and triggers the next "age". The story then continues in a similar vein to the old ones. First Garrett just thinks "it's her problem", and goes of and robs a few people. Then he gets dragged back into events. Eventually he brings about some sort of conclusion.

The devs could proceed in any number of ways regarding Garrett's relationship with the girl. Does she become the villian? Does she become an unknowing tool of somebody else and get rescued by Garrett? Does she realise the error of her ways, and rescue Garrett himself, at some turning point in the story (I like this one)? There are lots of things which could work.

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* She could steal his equipment too, which helps (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127407) teach the player, because the devs can introduce garrett's tools to the player slowly ... like they did with lockpicks in T1.

EDIT: those damn apostrophe's

Chade on 24/6/2009 at 05:55

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I agree that it is a little wierd to have Garrett mentoring someone, but I place more significance on the last scene then that. My impression is that it signifies not only Garrett's character arc, but that someone else has come to start on the journey that Garrett started on years ago when he did something identical.

Under that theory, some sort of mentoring is in order, and it is appropriate for Garrett to do it. The other alternative is for Garrett to reject the girl and have some old keeper attempt it (with bad consequences as he wouldn't be the "true" keeper?). But my feeling is that if Garrett and the little girl are going to interact in the story, a deeper relationship will have more dramatic punch then a shallow one.

If Garrett mentors the girl, I would try to emphasise the different nature of the resulting education (doing Garrett's dirty work, less like a school and more like "accomplish this for me and don't come back until you do") ... but ultimately it is all backstory, so you don't really need to spend all that much time dwelling on it. Garrett's personality and actions during the game are more important then the back story, or at least that is how I feel.

I don't think that time is such a problem. I think you can get away with five years. That's enough time for an impressive sounding education, it's about right if the girl is going to run off as an idealistic (or indignant) adolescent, and it wouldn't make Garrett too old. Garrett's age has always been very ambiguous anyway.

Chade on 24/6/2009 at 09:12

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Sez you. :rolleyes:

Anyway, this is all about the audience's subjective interpretation of the last scene - there's only so many interesting things you can say about it. I will resist the urge to talk any further about this (*grumble*), because it's not really my intention to restart the bankrupt debate (something I should have made clearer in my last post).

My intention is to assume the event is significant, and then talk about how you could bring the girl back in a way that satisfies people.