Chade on 24/6/2009 at 09:25
You don't need to get me to look at in a new way ... I've been following the debate. I just haven't been all the intested in joining the fray, as there's nothing I can say that people like you don't already know.
On the other hand, I believe that talking about how you might introduce the girl is a subject with considerably more meat on it. After all, it's a hard thing to do while staying truthfull to Garrett's traditional character.
mcnils on 24/6/2009 at 15:52
I felt the TDS ending to be a very nice move. It, as said, closed the circle, and it also made me put a stone on any hopes of a sequel somehow, the story was concluded, the cycle renewed. On the other hand it also left a lot open to interpretation... Like any good ending should, that is how characters of a story live on in our minds, there doesnt have to be a "and if they didnt die, they lived happily thereafter". But i'm way OT.
Thief2X explored a female player character and i didnt think it was bad (for being an amatorial project anyways). I'm sure i'm not the only one to think like this but i'm not entirely against playing in someone else's shoes than good old Garrett's, although i kind of got affectionated to his voice over the years... If the game makers manage to preserve the Master Thief as we love him, i'm all for him being in the game again, if not, well, i'd loathe to see him with a giant bionic arm, the TV static night vision thingy was already pushing it. I liked TDS, i'm sure Eidos will amaze us.
PS: I got the firm impression that Garrett in the end of TDS became a true blooded Keeper, the final glyph leaving that key symbol on his hand, and him saying that "it is not easy seeing a Keeper" thing were obvious clues. Garrett may be too lived and powerful of a character now to act as the players avatar in the world, so the girl COULD be a way to overcome this, and Garrett would be the mentor figure then, a bit like Artemis was, although i remember him more like a sidekick than anything else.
Platinumoxicity on 24/6/2009 at 18:29
Quote Posted by mcnils
PS: I got the firm impression that Garrett in the end of TDS became a true blooded Keeper, the final glyph leaving that key symbol on his hand, and him saying that "it is not easy seeing a Keeper" thing were obvious clues. Garrett may be too lived and powerful of a character now to act as the players avatar in the world, so the girl COULD be a way to overcome this, and Garrett would be the mentor figure then, a bit like Artemis was, although i remember him more like a sidekick than anything else.
He didn't "become" anything in the end suddenly. He and the Keepers only finally realised that Garrett has always been the true keeper, because the "real" keepers had always been full of fail. The marking in his hand is only there as an insignia of his newly discovered status. The keepers in the "keeper" sense, are gone, all that's left is a bunch of dudes in black, lots of empty books and a thief.
Namdrol on 25/6/2009 at 00:09
Them dudes in black are trained, and are magic users.
Phyre on 25/6/2009 at 05:00
Quote Posted by Chade
A thought on the girl ...
I like these idea's, they sound like a good way to integrate the girl into the story, without being too intrusive. They also have a nice resonance with TDP; Garrett leaves the Keepers, girl leaves Garrett.
Quote:
Originally posted by NamdrolThem dudes in black are trained, and are magic users.
Trained sure, but I thought that the end of TDS put a kibosh on Keeper (glyph based) magic?
You know ironically enough, this thread (despite the title) makes me remember the girl even more. Maybe it's the exclamation points. :sly:
mcnils on 25/6/2009 at 10:30
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
He didn't "become" anything in the end suddenly. He and the Keepers only finally realised that Garrett has always been the true keeper, because the "real" keepers had always been full of fail. The marking in his hand is only there as an insignia of his newly discovered status. The keepers in the "keeper" sense, are gone, all that's left is a bunch of dudes in black, lots of empty books and a thief.
Thank you for the exposition, yes i'm aware that Garrett had a life long back and forth with the Keeper organization, and finally single handedly did its proper job, always with the wrong purposes yet to the contrary of them the right means. Dont you think the key symbol burned in his hand has other meaning or powers? The possibilities are endless, we're talking about the final glyph after all. But we're also sidetracking. I'm still convinced that Garrett may have become too involved to be the players character. Its about narration devices and while we love the Master Thief as we know him, he could be out of touch with a newcomer to the series, as the whole world, so very rich and begging to be explored, that is easier to be done from a story telling point of view with a neutral character, an outsider or a stranger to The City's deeper intricacies and allegiances.
Here is an article, interesting on its own devices, that influenced my opinion on this
(
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_205/6150-Robbing-Gods)
Quote:
Quoted from Robbing Gods, an article on The Escapist Magazine by Will Hindmarch(...) Outsiders make great protagonists because they mirror the player's experience. We players are often interlopers, entering the game world and upsetting the characters and the action that would theoretically unfold if we didn't show up. Unlike the characters we may meet patrolling the game levels, we are new to the game's environments and situations; we're strangers here ourselves. (...)
This is where the girl could come in, or not. I'm sure Eidos has great writers at disposal, who knows what with they can come up to send us taffing, making us feel enthralled by the experience as we did the first 3 times around. Maybe the old Keepers will be the new bad guys? But i'm rambling.
Dia on 25/6/2009 at 11:33
Quote Posted by mcnils
Dont you think the key symbol burned in his hand has other meaning or powers?
Hmmmm.... a little off topic, but if (when) they bring Garrett back (as the main character), do you think they'll include that symbol on his hand? If they try to remain true to the Garrett saga so far I'd imagine they'd have to include Garrett's new tattoo.
Platinumoxicity on 25/6/2009 at 11:38
Quote Posted by mcnils
Thank you for the exposition, yes i'm aware that Garrett had a life long back and forth with the Keeper organization, and finally single handedly did its proper job, always with the wrong purposes yet to the contrary of them the right means. Dont you think the key symbol burned in his hand has other meaning or powers? The possibilities are endless, we're talking about the final glyph after all. But we're also sidetracking. I'm still convinced that Garrett may have become too involved to be the players character. Its about narration devices and while we love the Master Thief as we know him, he could be out of touch with a newcomer to the series, as the whole world, so very rich and begging to be explored, that is easier to be done from a story telling point of view with a neutral character, an outsider or a stranger to The City's deeper intricacies and allegiances.
No, I don't think that the symbol has any other meaning than a mark to signify the true keeper status that Garrett has always had. And special powers for a master thief seem... i dunno. Stupid? The possibilites are endless, but that was exactly the point in the ending of the trilogy. It left the continuation completely open so that there wouldn't be anything that the devs of the possible sequel would have to base their game on to avoid destroying the continuity.
I believe that the one of the points in the ending was that the keepers, every single one of them, even the one true keeper, have lost all their power because the one true keeper did what he was meant to do. Garrett's only "special power" was the fact that he was the main thing that drove the prophecies, and his ultimate purpose was to end them. He succeeded, and now his work as a keeper is finally done. He brought balance in all things. The City, the powers of it, and most importantly, the balance between him and the keepers. The keepers gained what they never had, the ability to influence the propecies, and Garrett lost what he had, his involvement in the propecies. =Balance.
mcnils on 25/6/2009 at 11:41
Quote Posted by Dia
Hmmmm.... a little off topic, but if (when) they bring Garrett back (as the main character), do you think they'll include that symbol on his hand? If they try to remain true to the Garrett saga so far I'd imagine they'd have to include Garrett's new tattoo.
(if and when) Yes, most defenately IMO. The first thing that came to my mind when i saw the key symbol on Garretts hand, after the city wide glyph activated, was "he's got the Keys to The City now" (wonderfully ironic as, like Platinumoxicity pointed out, he's a Master Thief already, and a very prolific lockpicker at that, too). But that was pretty obvious, i think the cutscene went specifically for this feeling. The powers it could grant (remember the hidden glyph doors scattered through The City?), and if the glyphs are truly finished, or just gone from the Keepers grasp, we'll have to see i guess! I'm really hyped, girl or not girl, because lets face it, we downright are in love with the setting.
