thecrippledburrick on 12/5/2007 at 12:13
the graphics of the earlier games were never really groundbreaking. t1 now is quite awful looking and hasnt aged that well, neither for that matter has t2. Even on first being released the 16bit textures of t1 werent breathtaking and then a little dated, 32bit being the best at the time. t2 thankfully gave us the option of 32bit textures but the difference wasnt marked and the end result was still a game which visually looked similar to the originals. the dark engine despite praise from a majority within the community and critics to me seemed an engine which handled sound, physics and environmental elements better than visual conventions. developed in 1994 the dark engine needed more tweaking for t2, or a new engine. it was refreshing to see a change in TDS which leads me to think would this change have occurred if LGS were still around?
the levels in t2 being larger were at first imtimidating and quite confusing, the map adding to navigational problems by being ambiguous as to the players location. t1 was slightly more linear making level design less confusing because progress and goals were for the majority begining-middle-end, wheras in t2 there was backtracking which lead to exploration which lead to confusion.
TDS is an overhaul. a re-envisioning of the thief series for a contempory market. as the first in the next gen of thief games it marks a new start and the chance for improvements, tweaking and changes.
imperialreign on 13/5/2007 at 02:22
honestly, T1 graphically was really good when it came out, I mean . . . they weren't the greatest on the market, but they were definitely different, and decent. There was a different style that other games didn't have, which stood out, IMO. T2 at least brought the graphic depth up a bit more with the rest of the market, but still falling short of most other hits.
But, I honestly say that T1/T2 proved that it doesn't matter how poor the graphics are as long as game play and substance is top-notch. There were so many other games on the market that were graphically stunning, but couldn't stand up to the playability of of T1/T2.
TDS was graphically superior to the first two games, and the AI programming was astounding, but I think in some sense that a certain amount of substance was sacrificed, too.
ercles on 13/5/2007 at 09:00
Quote Posted by thecrippledburrick
1)
nitwit.
:p
You'd have much more luck with ZB if you just capitalised correctly and used the occasional apostrophe. Well, that, and agree with everything he says.
Also there's a good discussion of penis' and stuff over in commchat, perhaps you'll seem less like a dribbling idiot there.
New Horizon on 13/5/2007 at 14:36
Quote Posted by thecrippledburrick
the levels in t2 being larger were at first imtimidating and quite confusing, the map adding to navigational problems by being ambiguous as to the players location. t1 was slightly more linear making level design less confusing because progress and goals were for the majority begining-middle-end, wheras in t2 there was backtracking which lead to exploration which lead to confusion.
Isn't that what the auto map tracking was for? The map lit up to show you where you were, T2 was far easier to navigate, if you used the resources at your disposal.
The maps in TDS were so poorly drawn, I could sometimes get completely off track...even in those small levels.
Muzman on 13/5/2007 at 17:41
Quote Posted by thecrippledburrick
1)
2) i think it is the truest realisation in terms of technology (lighting/sound/graphics) and narrative.
This is a deplorable statement. The first game has utterly masterful sound, years ahead of its time and barely altered in the sequals, groundbreaking if not revolutionary level design and the finest storytelling outside of convaluted and wordy RPGs (its only real competition in this regard being other LGS games).
Thief DS, while being a game attempt, left a whole lot of the life of the world on the cutting room floor by making the levels generally a lot less detailed and more straightforward and simplifying the storytelling too much for its own good. Does look nice though.
(the graphics thing again...oy...it's enough to make me all Jewish. For such a bad rep, when you look back at the era what besides Half-life has clearly superior graphics to Thief 1? Not a whole lot. Unreal maybe, but that's largely bright (and very good) textures and wide open spaces and certainly not detail in animation, levels or modeling generally. Sin? no! Quake2? not really. Thief dated quickly when some of the more advanced FPSs of '99 started coming out, sure. But it's strange how it's got to be apologised for like it was a graphical pariah in its day)
RavynousHunter on 17/5/2007 at 02:47
Hmmm..... The free-roaming thing in TDS did seem really badly tacked on. However, as for it being a ... quintessential (only word i can come up w/ atm) part of the series, Id have to respond with an emphatic "no."
1) No rope/vine arrows. Thief just isnt Thief w/o these trademark tools in Garrett's arsenal.
2) No swimming. This part just does NOT make sense to me, guess the poor buggers @ IonStorm were pressed for time or somethin...
Want a suggestion on how to remake TDS and make it better? Try making it a mod under GTA: San Andreas. You got the free-roam thing goin, its got a small, yet workable stealth engine, swimming, and Im at least hoping workable rope/vine arrows w/o a horrendously criminal amount of work. Hell, cant hurt to try, can it? :thumb: I would try, but I dont have a DVD drive...
ercles on 17/5/2007 at 07:18
Quote Posted by RavynousHunter
1) No rope/vine arrows. Thief just isnt Thief w/o these trademark tools in Garrett's arsenal.
2) No swimming. This part just does NOT make sense to me, guess the poor buggers @ IonStorm were pressed for time or somethin...
Good to see some origional fucking points there, Ravynous. As far as GTA:Thief goes, complete and utter rubbish. Why not create a new set of missions for Thief 2? It had better sneaking mechanics, swimming, rope arrows, and the graphics were about as good as San Andreas anyway. Most people complained that free roaming was just a pain in the ass anyway, because they'd rather just stick to the missions.
