catbarf on 28/7/2011 at 04:39
Not to mention the zombies were supposed to be less-scary cannon fodder. It's another thing entirely when it's a Pinky or Revenant charging at you.
Yakoob on 28/7/2011 at 15:26
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
Plus you had all these guns, whereas a
true horror experience is more akin to amnesia where you have NO weapons.
I'd disagree, as that's just a cheap way of "forcing" a player to be scared (and is not true considering the rather varied weapon choice found in pretty much every single survival horror). What's a more immersion and believable scenario - a game which explicitely gives you no choice and makes you defenseless, or a game that gives you the illusion of having means of self-defense, but slowly makes you realize that despite the variety of weapons you are still extremely vulnerable, and even your best tool might fail you when you least expect it (inducing a mild case of paranoia)?
It's kind of why I never quite got into Thief but loved stealthing around in Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. In the former, I am told and forced to be stealthy regardless of my own decisions; in the latter, due to the intricateness, difficulty and realism of the combat system, I
chose stealth as the most logical and beneficial path.
june gloom on 28/7/2011 at 18:47
I enjoy Thief regardless (and a savvy player isn't completely unarmed, anyway) but I agree with you on everything else.
Koki on 28/7/2011 at 19:11
Quote Posted by Yakoob
It's kind of why I never quite got into Thief but loved stealthing around in Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. In the former, I am told and forced to be stealthy regardless of my own decisions;
Uh, no. And you're contradicting yourself pretty badly here.
Yakoob on 28/7/2011 at 21:25
I knew someone was gonna nitpick this bit. Yes, Thief has weapons and if you wanted to be stubborn you could camp in a corner somewhere constantly whacking your shitty little sword as 15000 guards rush you, or bunny hop around while slashing guards. But those are just cheese strategies and you realize the futility of a "combat" approach the first time you try it. The whole game is so clearly set up for stealth they might as well not have given you a sword at all.
That is much different from DMoMM where combat actually IS viable, but extremely difficult (albeit fair), resulting in stealth being the most logical choice*; not because the devs nerfed all your weapons to hell and back.
* at least until you learn how to fight properly and properly scout out the surroundings for barrels / spikes / giant gaping holes in the ground.
june gloom on 28/7/2011 at 22:35
Does it count if you strictly use combat for fighting undead?
nicked on 29/7/2011 at 05:17
So what you're basically saying is you prefer a game to throw in a half-arsed bit of everything than focus on getting one thing right. Jeez, your combat options might be limited in Thief, but the sheer amount of choice you have for approach, style, amount of exploration in the huge levels, etc. means it has far more replayability than the linear path of Dark Messiah that often throws unavoidable fights at you no matter how you choose to approach them.
And you complain about cheesy strategies in Thief, and then mention the conveniently-placed spike racks and bottomless pits of Dark Messiah as though they're a plus point.
Koki on 29/7/2011 at 05:37
Besides there's a whole lotta more than just guards in Thief. Undead, Burricks, Trickster minions. Many of them are much easier and quicker to deal with by killing them than actually trying to sneak past them.
saatana on 29/7/2011 at 07:03
Thief had the best first-person meleesystem for its time and for a long while after it was released. AIs that actually parry and dodge your strikes was something I hadn't seen before and it was quickly obvious that bullrushing them wasn't the best option. You're not supposed to take on hordes of heavily armored guards with your "shitty" shortsword because Garret isn't Altair, but you can take out one or maybe a group of two if you're good without too much of a hassle or any "cheese".
