A.Stahl on 26/2/2019 at 12:29
Try to descend using the rope. Imagine the situation when you get to the beam. And now you're on it and without any spare rope arrows left. How many attempts do you need to fix yourself to the rope in this situation?
It is an engine problem, not gameplay. If you have an arrow or two, you can shot it nearby, jump to it, disconnect the previous arrow and safely descend. But if there isn't any it would lead to huge amount of loads. It isn't fun.
FireMage on 26/2/2019 at 12:32
Quote Posted by Judith
Mario jump sections
What's wrong with Mario and Thief? [video=youtube;zVSZXhik1Y8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVSZXhik1Y8[/video]
andyln on 26/2/2019 at 12:43
Again, it entirely depends on how it is implemented. The fact that something is a core gameplay mechanic does not automatically mean it will be enjoyable to play.
I agree with a point mentioned earlier - if for a substantial majority of cases you only quicksave and do not need to reload, then I'd say climbing/using rope arrows is implemented properly. Problems start when the difficulty of leaps/climbs is so high that you have to quick load so often it severly distrupts the flow of play. That's one of the issues I had with Rose Garden, which made the mission not quite entertaining to play, if very impressing visually. That is not to mean you can't make a mission emphasizing the vertical dimension enjoyable - remaining within the latest contest's frame, The Sound of a Burrick in a Room and The Whistling of the Gears were adjusted brilliantly in the matter, especially the former.
Psych0sis on 26/2/2019 at 13:00
I'm genuinely curious what constitutes a "mario jumping section" tbh, like an example of a mission that does this. I also have no idea what A.Stahl was even trying to convene. Likely just a language barrier issue there.
Quote Posted by andyln
Again, it entirely depends on how it is implemented. The fact that something is a
core gameplay mechanic does not automatically mean it will be enjoyable to play.
I agree with a point mentioned earlier - if for a substantial majority of cases you only quicksave and do not need to reload, then I'd say climbing/using rope arrows is implemented properly. Problems start when the difficulty of leaps/climbs is so high that you have to quick load so often it severly distrupts the
flow of play. That's one of the issues I had with Rose Garden, which made the mission not quite entertaining to play, if very impressing visually. That is not to mean you can't make a mission emphasizing the vertical dimension enjoyable - remaining within the latest contest's frame, The Sound of a Burrick in a Room and The Whistling of the Gears were adjusted brilliantly in the matter, especially the former.
I'm really curious what these hard jumps are as well, Since you can actually just beat Rose Garden without really jumping more than a couple units. Your point is valid, but every mission goes through thorough playtesting, I would assume. Surely a problem would have arose and been fixed before release if these jumps were truly horrifying.
Melan on 26/2/2019 at 13:10
There was a young fellow from Poland,
Who had played Thief with one hand,
He fell down some ropes,
And ladders and ledges and moats,
So he built his own maps as flat lowlands.
Psych0sis on 26/2/2019 at 13:18
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
You're right, mission authors should be using horizonal ladders instead of vertical ladders.
so Ultimate Burglary?
DarkMax on 26/2/2019 at 13:22
tl;dr "I'm not that good at the game so please adjust the difficulty for me, ty".
Unna Oertdottir on 26/2/2019 at 13:27
I remember some hard jumps in (
http://thiefmissions.com/m/GussiesDream) Gussie's Dream. Too difficult, that's why it's a underrated mission. But it's so
much fun :ebil:
Dealing with rope arrows is just practice and exercise, again and again. No excuses, this is core gameplay. Someday you know what you're doing, the dos and don'ts.
andyln on 26/2/2019 at 13:59
Difficulty may be achieved in various ways. Making your mission overbrim with tricky leaps is a lazy way to make it challenging at the expense of playability.
But it's really a question of your playing philosophy. I totally understand that some people like Tomb Raider/Prince of Persia/T1 style gameplay more, while the others prefer sneaky and analytic approach (like me). And there's no need to get so upset and self-important over that.
DIAMONDVEHICLE on 26/2/2019 at 14:08
I definitely agree zombies should be avoided, but for a different reason. They're a tired old horror trope, particularly with that moaning sound effect. Undead should have some mystery and subtlety to them. I liked how the Fire Shadow never uttered words, and the reversed speech of the undead Hammerites is good, too, although those snatches of "join us now!" and "I want your soul [shameless misquote]" are a bit corny.
