CCCToad on 25/10/2011 at 03:42
My opinion, it probably would be a circus, but that doesn't make it not worthwhile. The spate of US-led killings of its opposition ( ie, al-awlaki) has soured what's left of US relations in the Middle East. Even a trial like that could only help but to give us more of an air legitimacy than a killing did.
demagogue on 25/10/2011 at 03:52
The defense strategy for *every* international trial is *always* trial-of-rupture, i.e., pretend it's a circus. And the prosecution's job is always first just to document the crimes; guilt is usually not even in question. So it can have a perfunctory feel, but that doesn't make it any less important to do it and do it by the book.
In the end, it's not about the trial of a person anyway. The main purpose of trials like this is to help a country that's been under dictator rule for 40 years to transition into a law-abiding democracy. It documents the crimes; it keeps sympathizers from claiming any moral highground or bringing the old habits into the new government; it sends a message that the rule of law matters even for the government, which is a good lesson for a gov't of newbies, not to mention all the other dictators still out there... Also impunity or extrajudicial assassinations can eat away at the legitimacy of the state for years to come. Things like that.
Azaran on 25/10/2011 at 05:45
Update:(
http://gulfnews.com/news/region/libya/jalil-vows-to-uphold-islamic-law-1.917123) Libya will henceforth be governed by Sharia law.
Jalil set out a vision for the post-Gaddafi future, saying that Sharia law would be the "basic source" of legislation in the country and that existing laws that contradict the teachings of Islam would be nullified.
Hurray for democracy...:erg:
Muzman on 25/10/2011 at 05:51
Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's a media circus. Deposed leaders, as dg says, will always just deny the court has any legitimacy to prosecute them anyway and refuse to co operate. The point is generally that a case against them that is legitimate is put into record.
Azaran on 25/10/2011 at 07:29
Now the new Libyan authorities are looking the other way, and (
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/world/middleeast/libyas-interim-leaders-to-investigate-qaddafi-killing.html?_r=2&hp&pagewanted=all) cleaning up atrocities that were committed by the rebels.
SURT, Libya — In the parched garden of the Mahari Hotel, volunteers on Monday scrubbed signs of a recent massacre. They collected dozens of bodies, apparently of people executed on the hotel grounds several days ago, but left other evidence behind, like the plastic ties that were used to bind the hands of victims and shell casings, scattered on the dead grass in patches of blood.
The volunteers said the victims included at least two former Qaddafi government officials, local loyalist fighters and maybe civilians. The killers, they believed, were former rebel fighters, belonging to anti-Qaddafi units that had used the hotel as a base in recent weeks. It appeared to be one of the worst massacres of the eight-month conflict, but days after it occurred, no one from Libya's new government had come to investigate.
The interim leaders, who declared the country liberated on Sunday, may simply have their hands full with the responsibilities that come with running a state. But throughout the Libyan conflict, they have also shown themselves to be unwilling or incapable of looking into accusations of atrocities by their fighters, despite repeated pledges not to tolerate abuse.
The lack of control came into sharp focus last week, when former rebel fighters arrested Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. In videos of the capture on Thursday morning, victorious fighters were shown manhandling Colonel Qaddafi, who appeared to be bleeding and distressed but conscious. This was moments after he was pulled from a large drainage pipe where he had hidden after a NATO air assault destroyed part of his convoy. Subsequent video shows his bruised corpse, with at least one bullet wound to the head.
On Monday, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, the chairman of the Transitional National Council, as the interim governing body is known, announced the formation of a commission of inquiry into the death of Colonel Qaddafi.
In his announcement, Mr. Abdel-Jalil acknowledged that pressure from foreign powers and rights groups — including some that supported the rebellion — had prompted the decision to investigate how Colonel Qaddafi wound up dead with a bullet to the head. Mr. Abdel-Jalil referred to “demands of the international community” for an investigation.
But it was unclear from his comments how much authority the committee would have to pursue an investigation and whether anyone might be held accountable. He also suggested that anti-Qaddafi fighters may not have been the ones who killed him, hinting that the fatal bullets might even have come from Colonel Qaddafi's own supporters. That suggestion is sharply at odds with the video evidence that has surfaced of Colonel Qaddafi's death.
As in several previous instances during the uprising when anti-Qaddafi fighters were suspected of abuses or of extralegal killings, the leaders of the rebellion face a delicate balance as they try to bolster their own legitimacy by courting or coddling powerful militia leaders. The interim leaders have also failed to establish a chain of command among the armed militias, despite repeated attempts to form a national army.
Some of the anti-Qaddafi fighters have been accused of arbitrary arrests and torture, and others have been implicated in killings. In August, Gen. Abdul Fattah Younes, the rebel's top military commander, was killed in Benghazi along with two of his aides, Mr. Abdel-Jalil also said then that there would an investigation, asserting that no one, not even the highest officials, would be immune.
At the time, Mr. Abdel-Jalil suggested that Colonel Qaddafi's loyalists might have been responsible, even as his colleagues conceded that rebel fighters were the chief suspects in the killings. No one has been prosecuted for the killing.
On Monday, in offering his new theory for how Colonel Qaddafi may have died at the hands of his own disciples, Mr. Abdel-Jalil suggested that they may have feared he would implicate them in atrocities if he had survived and been put on trial.
“Let us question who has the interest in the fact that Qaddafi will not be tried,” he said. “Libyans want to try him for what he did to them, with executions, imprisonment and corruption. Free Libyans wanted to keep Qaddafi in prison and humiliate him as long as possible. Those who wanted him killed were those who were loyal to him or had played a role under him. His death was in their benefit.”
This theory appeared to be an attempt to deflect sharp international questions about the government's handling of Colonel Qaddafi's final moments. The body, which has been on public display since Thursday in the western city of Misurata, was scheduled to be buried on Tuesday in a secret location in the desert, according to a Transitional National Council official, Reuters reported. Saying that the “corpse cannot last longer,” the official said Muslim clerics would attend the ceremony.
The colonel's death has ended the fighting for now, but abuses by former rebel fighters continue: they were seen looting generators, cars and an exercise bike in Surt on Monday.
The Mahari Hotel, which overlooks the sea, was filled with suspicious signs about the killers, but nothing conclusive. The names of anti-Qaddafi brigades were scrawled on a whiteboard in the lobby, including brigades called Tiger, Lion, Panther and the Sand. Several of the brigades listed were from Misurata.
At a graveyard near the hotel, a local doctor looked after the massacre victims, photographing the bodies and pulling a tooth from each victim, collecting evidence for the men's families and for a criminal trial, should one take place. He ordered an assistant to splash water and spray insect repellent on the decomposing corpses that were waiting for burial.
Several of the victims wore fatigues. The hands of one man, who looked to be in his 20s, were bound behind his back. Several victims wore bandages, leading the volunteers to speculate that they had been patients at the city's main hospital who were detained when the former rebels captured it.
Another doctor, watching, shook his head. “What kind of democracy costs all this blood?” he said.
The doctor, who requested anonymity because he feared retribution by former rebel fighters, said that if the killings were not investigated, the inaction would fuel dangerous resentments. “There will be no peace in Libya for years,” he said.
Kareem Fahim reported from Surt, and Adam Nossiter reported from Benghazi, Libya. Rick Gladstone contributed reporting from New York.
june gloom on 25/10/2011 at 17:46
yeah seriously azaran you sound like michele bachmann there
Queue on 25/10/2011 at 18:24
Quote Posted by Azaran
... but abuses by former rebel fighters continue: they were seen looting generators, cars and an exercise bike ....
Because in the aftermath of a revolution, it is very important to get plenty of exercise.
Harvester on 25/10/2011 at 21:06
According to my brother-in-law, who did his major dissertation on African politics, there are some African countries where a moderate version of Sharia law works fairly well. There are also countries where Sharia law is only binding for Muslims and where non-Muslims can go to secular courts. Too bad I forgot which countries he mentioned.
Matthew on 25/10/2011 at 22:23
Well, it seems to me like saying that Germany's Christian Democratic Union or the UK's Democratic Unionist Party are, I dunno, modern-day Inquisition or something. Though admittedly the DUP is close, charmless nerks that they are.
