WingedKagouti on 13/11/2009 at 17:14
Quote Posted by heywood
HL1. Apprehension. I didn't feel like the game forced the setback at all, in fact it made me feel like a sucker.
That particular sequence felt to me like it was just added to pad the length of the game. "Oh, let's take away the guns the player has collected this far and then take just as long to regain the same guns."
N'Al on 13/11/2009 at 17:47
Is this really true though? IIRC you got your guns back relatively quickly after making it out of the trash compactor. It's been some time since I played HL1, mind.
demagogue on 13/11/2009 at 18:08
Of course sometimes the absurdity of the setback is part of the punchline.
In Anachronix there's that moment when you're confiscated by a comic pirate puzzle ship at the most absurdly arbitrary point, and then the hilariously contrived dilemma at the end of that when you're imprisioned and the ship's outer doors are opening, then the planet expands leading to a whole other level of contrived set-back, lol.
It's basically a self-aware extended "set back scenario" poking fun at the "inevitableness" and "non-sequitor for no great reason except pull out more gameplay" of the trope itself. That was the whole joke. (Nevermind it was some of the best gameplay in the whole game on the planet.)
The whole absurdity of the whole thing made it quite funny.
Jason Moyer on 13/11/2009 at 18:23
In terms of awesome setbacks, I'd go with "this eye is completely blind".
Unfortunately the "you've been working for the bad guy this whole time" setback has been used so much it doesn't really have an effect anymore.
june gloom on 13/11/2009 at 18:41
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
A similar thing happens when you get captured by Autumn and his men in the main campaign, after retrieving the GECK from Vault 87. In the scripted sequence you get knocked out by a few normal Enclave Troopers, again my level 30 character would've been able to vapourise them in seconds with A-21's Plasma Rifle.
To be fair, they do ambush you with an EMP grenade before they even walk in the room.
Quote Posted by heywood
Being left in a trash compactor seemed contrived though. Soldiers wouldn't do that.
Keep in mind these guys are A) dealing with something (the resonance cascade) that they are wholly unprepared for; 2) already killing civilians under orders; and D) pissed at Gordon for killing a lot of their buddies. Some HECU guys might not follow through with their orders, and in Cpl. Shephard's case never actually get those orders, but it's clear that the unit seems to attract the less scrupulous.
Sulphur on 13/11/2009 at 18:56
HL2 handled its pre-endgame setback pretty well. Strips you of all your weapons when you least expect it, and just when you're about to smash your head through your very expensive monitor, it drops the best weapon in the game - the Super GravGun - right in your lap.
Flinging random Combine patrols off platforms with a flick of the wrist and the press of a button just felt so devilishly good.
june gloom on 13/11/2009 at 19:01
Losing your weapons between Episodes 1 and 2 is a bit contrived, though, especially since Gordon's been through equally catastrophic situations without losing his weapons.
heywood on 13/11/2009 at 19:04
Quote Posted by N'Al
Is this really true though? IIRC you got your guns back relatively quickly after making it out of the trash compactor. It's been some time since I played HL1, mind.
That's my recollection as well. I thought it was meant as a tease, because the game doesn't really have or need filler to stretch it out. From the beginning up until that point, all you were trying to do was to get to the surface and get out. And when you finally get to that door after taking out the assassins, you're all pumped to see the surface and find out where the story goes. So it felt natural to walk right into that ambush.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Keep in mind these guys are A) dealing with something (the resonance cascade) that they are wholly unprepared for; 2) already killing civilians under orders; and D) pissed at Gordon for killing a lot of their buddies. Some HECU guys might not follow through with their orders, and in Cpl. Shephard's case never actually get those orders, but it's clear that the unit seems to attract the less scrupulous.
OK. But if you were bent on avenging your buddies, wouldn't you just put a bullet in Gordon's head rather than knocking him out, putting him in a sack, and dumping him in the garbage? It just seemed a rather odd way for Gordon to live.
june gloom on 13/11/2009 at 19:10
They were ordered to take him topside for questioning. On their way there they decide not to. They probably just threw him in the trash compactor for laughs, or because if they just gave Gordon a doubletap to the back of the head someone might come running and see they've gone against orders. At least with the trash compactor body disposal is easy.
nicked on 13/11/2009 at 19:13
Re: Half-Life's trash compactor - it may have been contrived, but they did at least explain it:
"So where are we taking this Freeman guy?"
"Topside for questioning."
"What for? We got him - let's kill him now."
"Er... and if they find the body?"
"Body? What body? Hurr hurr hurr..."
"Hahaha!"
I also thought it was great pacing to return the player to square 1 weapons-wise at this point. It made for a great eye-of-the-storm quiet puzzle section after the frantic action of Surface Tension but with the certain knowledge that it's not over yet...
Gotta mention Quake 4 here as well - grabbed by the Makron in a fairly natural-looking unavoidable way, only to wake up strapped to a conveyor belt to witness your your own body being hacked to bits and horribly mutilated. Turned around beautifully when you're rescued and find yourself transformed into a more effective soldier.
