Shadowcat on 14/11/2009 at 03:43
Re: Bioshock
Quote Posted by Thirith
Wasn't that one explained by the
"Would you kindly...?", making the protagonist less of an idiot?
Nope. He just sticks himself, like a moron.
Shadowcat on 14/11/2009 at 03:58
Quote Posted by Harvester
Lame. :rolleyes: At least pour so many aliens down my throat that I
really can't hold them back.
Man I
hate those ones! I've encountered it several times... there you are, the game's ultimate killing machine, merrily slaughtering
dozens of bad guys while your armour (or mutant hardened skin of bullet-resistance) soaks up their fire, and then some arbitrary pair turn up in a cut-scene and point completely normal guns at you, and you immediately drop your weapons and put up your hands.
I'm pretty sure Elite Force was also the most annoying example of this for me.
Zygoptera on 14/11/2009 at 04:08
That's not really refutation, dethtoll.
What exactly would their excuse be? Gordon accidentally fell into a trash compactor and we didn't notice? Random physics anomaly teleported him there? Is there any probability of an excuse holding water?
Redecorate the compactor with shade of brain, press button, problem solved. Also game over, of course.
ie the problem isn't with the setback itself, but with it requiring antagonist stupidity mediated plot hand waving for it to make sense.
If there's an incongruity it's with not considering the T1 equivalent to be similar. I haven't played T1 for ages but there isn't really any reason (?) for C/V not to simply end the whole thing right there and then rather than using the standard supervillain-not-finishing-the-job-and-leaving-it-to-incompetent-underling cliche.
Angel Dust on 14/11/2009 at 04:30
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Consider taking a reading class because this argument's already been refuted before you even posted it.
I'm failing to see where the fact they don't kill you first has been refuted using information in the game and not just with some idle speculation on your part.
I'm not arguing that there couldn't be a plausible explanation for their actions but that the said explanation isn't in the game. The fact that you have to speculate to come up with one, since everything else you've learnt about them and the prior conversation seem to point to killing you then dumping your body, is what makes it feel contrived.
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
If there's an incongruity it's with not considering the T1 equivalent to be similar. I haven't played T1 for ages but there isn't really any reason (?) for C/V not to simply end the whole thing right there and then rather than using the standard supervillain-not-finishing-the-job-and-leaving-it-to-incompetent-underling cliche.
They leave you alive because your (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYOeHevFUKI) "sacrifice is not yet complete" and you only have the opportunity to escape, you were incased in vines/branches, thanks to a (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O9JkVtt-jY) couple of Keepers. It does seem a little flimsy and convenient when you read it like that but I think the game makes it convincing.
Pyrian on 14/11/2009 at 05:10
My favorite handling of this was also entirely optional: the prison in Thief 3. It triggers the first time you're taken out by a street guard. It's not really connected to the normal narrative at all.
I've always been vaguely curious why the big bad in Dark Messiah can't use telekinesis on you in the end fight, even though it's his go to power every other time you meet him. ...Maybe he just doesn't have "adrenaline" going... Hmm. I should try using an adrenaline telekinesis on him some time. Meh. It probably wouldn't even work. :p ...In fact I think I've tried it in the past.
I think people are thinking too hard about the compactor. The most likely answer is simply "Why waste the bullet?"
Zygoptera on 14/11/2009 at 06:28
I checked cs11 beforehand since i had the TG CDs right next to the computer and C basically says his children (the apebeasts that turn up in the next mission, presumably, or the plants) need to feed. I would have thought they could do that as easily on a dead G as a live one, and that would make any rescue moot.
In any case I'm happy enough with a bit of contrivance when it's wedded to otherwise excellent execution, and it's a very rare story in any medium which doesn't have "why didn't they just do that" moments. But while I do think it qualifies as an excellent, and well executed, twist I'd have to say that I don't think it qualifies as good storytelling- from a purely "technical" or "deconstructivist" standpoint.
Which is, of course, a horrible way to look at stories whether game or anything else so well, carry on.
nicked on 14/11/2009 at 07:33
I thought it meant the vines needed to feed - either way, they surely prefer live flesh. Besides, Constantine's got far more important things to be thinking about.
june gloom on 14/11/2009 at 08:20
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
That's not really refutation, dethtoll.
What exactly would their excuse be? Gordon accidentally fell into a trash compactor and we didn't notice? Random physics anomaly teleported him there? Is there
any probability of an excuse holding water?
Redecorate the compactor with shade of brain, press button, problem solved. Also game over, of course.
ie the problem isn't with the setback itself, but with it requiring antagonist stupidity mediated plot hand waving for it to make sense.
I've already gone over this, and Pyrian brings up a good point- why waste a bullet if they're just going to throw you in the compactor anyway? The fact that they toss you in rather than take you topside says that they hadn't actually reported capturing Gordon they have and therefore if they decided to make Gordon disappear they would see no repercussions from their superiors (if they even have contact with said superiors- as we see in OpFor, there was a lot of breaks along the chain of command.)
Quote Posted by Angel Dust
I'm not arguing that there couldn't be a plausible explanation for their actions but that the said explanation isn't in the game. The fact that you have to speculate to come up with one, since everything else you've learnt about them and the prior conversation seem to point to killing you then dumping your body, is what makes it feel contrived.
Then I guess the entire fucking series is contrived, because pretty much the whole point of Half-Life is that you never have the whole story.
WingedKagouti on 14/11/2009 at 12:14
Quote Posted by Pyrian
I think people are thinking too hard about the compactor. The most likely answer is simply "Why waste the bullet?"
"Better safe than sorry."
To me it's just the most glaring example of the poor storytelling that makes up Half-Life.
june gloom on 14/11/2009 at 18:28
Oh just go away.
