EvaUnit02 on 14/12/2009 at 01:22
Quote Posted by Bakerman
Samorost 2 is on the adventure top sellers. I think that's awesome.
That's because it was on sale for fucking 2 dollars.
Bakerman on 14/12/2009 at 02:22
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
That's because it was on sale for fucking 2 dollars.
That's fair enough :p.
CCCToad on 14/12/2009 at 07:39
Quote Posted by Chade
So the player wants to feel like the star is his own movie. Your hypothetical game, I presume, successfully achieves this.
.
Hypothetically, yes.
In reality, games always fall short of real cinema when they are trying to be cinematic. As one critic said (I think it was Yahtzee), the current obsession with games being cinematic is like a movie trying to be more like literature by flashing a scrolling wall of text on the screen for 90 minutes.
Sure, it does the job, but it isn't close to what the Medium can accomplish.
For example, Modern Warfare (1 + 2) which tried hard but still fell short of matching any good military action film. Then compare it to Deus Ex, which matched and surpassed a lot of sci-punk literature by leveraging the advantages of the game medium (player choices affecting the plot, exploration, open ended gameplay) to successfully convey the feeling that it was YOU who was unravelling the conspiracy, and not the actor playing JC Denton.
denisv on 14/12/2009 at 10:18
You know what's to blame for the general decline in video game quality? Internet forums and community sites; with their advent it's become obvious that most companies' player base consists of angry 12 year old kids who couldn't appreciate Art if you put them in a sealed room with it and told them they best make the most of the oxygen they've got left.
Bakerman on 14/12/2009 at 12:49
Quote Posted by Chade
You need to make a game that a lot of people will play. I.e., a good game, for some value of "good".
Are you making the point here that a 'good' game is one that lots of people want to play, regardless of how we might feel about it? I think that's what you're getting at. I guess it's valid, but my idealism wishes it weren't :p.
Quote:
with their advent it's become obvious that most companies' player base consists of angry 12 year old kids who couldn't appreciate Art if you put them in a sealed room with it and told them they best make the most of the oxygen they've got left.
I think it still all boils down to the profit-first mentality. Once you know angry 12yos are who's buying your game, you design with them in mind. You make a game that angry tweens will enjoy, not a game that you would enjoy.
Unless, of course, they're the same game. Whatever.
SubJeff on 14/12/2009 at 13:21
Except stats show that the average age of gamers is much much higher, and the range tells us that 12yr olds are an insignificant minority.
Manwe on 14/12/2009 at 13:33
Just want to mention that the "games are made for 12 yo kids" thing isn't true. That was true ten years ago when we were 12. Games were made for us. And they were much harder and much more complex back then because 12 yo have much more time to play games and they understand them far better than any adult ever might. Now they're being dumbed down not because of those 12 yo kids , but to appeal to the casual market, which is your average 40 year old family guy who's never touched a video game in his life. Sorry to break it to you but 12 yo are the hardcore audience. Sure they may not have a lot of appreciation for artistic games but they're the ones who play video games a lot, and who play them on the hardest difficulty, finding all the secrets, and getting all the achievements. I mean does anyone remember when they were 12 ? I played pretty much any game I could get my hands on back then and I would always finish them at 100% in a matter of days. Now I'm lucky if I can even find the time and motivation to finish one game over the period of a few months.
What's killing video games (well the ones I like at least) is precisely the fact that they're not being aimed at kids anymore (or rather they're not the only ones buying them anymore). They're being aimed at everybody and their fucking grandmother. Because a kid (as retarded as you think they are) will play anything even the most bizarre and complex stuff because they understand the mechanism of video games, as they play them a lot. But an adult ? The minute he's stuck, or gets frustrated he's just gonna turn it off and say fuck it. These people don't give a shit about art or story or immersion, they just want to relax, preferably with a beer in their hand and a bunch of friends. Try to picture these guys playing thief.
mothra on 14/12/2009 at 14:41
the 12 year olds I know are a bunch of morons that only know how to use gamecopyworld.com and the latest cheat codes. If they finish a game and you ask them about content, story and how they thought it played compared to XYZ the start staring at me like I am from another planet only babbling about scores and (!!!!) achievements.
"how is this game ?"
"it got 40 achievements !"
Jason Moyer on 14/12/2009 at 15:13
Quote Posted by denisv
You know what's to blame for the general decline in video game quality?
Yeah, I do. The quantity of games being released. There are more great games coming out in any given year now than there have been at any point in the history of videogames, there just also happen to be many many more stinkers as well. With gaming having become completely mainstream, it's inevitable there will be a ton of really popular games that are total shit, whereas in the past the most popular games tended to be ones that were also awesome, since gaming was essentially a subculture-type hobby. The same thing happens with any sort of entertainment medium, whether its games, music, film, or sport. Hell, even books fall into the same trap.
Of course, the real answer I'd give to your question, is that it hasn't declined at all, and you're just suffering from "everything was better in my day" syndrome which has been common among fans of anything since the dawn of man. People bitch about the quality of things that emerge when they're in their mid 20's or older, but they totally gloss over shit from their childhood or teenage years. I do it just like everyone else does.
Chade on 14/12/2009 at 21:30
Quote Posted by Bakerman
Are you making the point here that a 'good' game is one that
lots of people want to play, regardless of how
we might feel about it?
Well, that's a pretty self-centered thing to say. It only makes sense if you arbitrarily give a higher value to your feelings then the feelings of other people.
