Zygoptera on 18/12/2008 at 01:44
While their new franchises (probably excluding Spore, though I suspect even it is selling below their hopes) haven't done stellar, have any of EA's established franchises (exc sports) sold well this year either?
FC2, like Oblivion, does not have any sort of 'real' living world system, it's still all scripting designed to give an approximation of 'reality'. The problem with such systems is that while they do allow for cool things to happen, you're far more likely to see and remember when it doesn't work- people raking carpets or stealing (and getting caught) one apple at a time off a table
Chade on 18/12/2008 at 08:08
I'll just repost something that Clint said on some random guy's blog ...
Quote:
I understand. Some fairly serious weaknesses on the story telling side to help make the player feel that these guys are saying 'if you go do this mission, we'll help you find the Jackal' - it's just not there... and yeah, you're right, we could have given a few more clues and sprinkled the actual main story threads through the bulk of the faction missions better for sure... we didn't know until far too late how long those sections of the game would be (they are 3x as long as we imagined, easily) making the pacing of the 'hunting the jackal' story much weaker. But many of the things you suggest are things we actively tried to do - your criticism (and that of others) is a pretty good measure of how successful we were... I mostly agree with your proposed improvements - it's more a matter of the difficulty of execution really.
The guardposts thing - yeah, we're getting raked over the coals for that. Funny thing is, we did discuss it and unfortunately, while there are better theoretical solutions than repopulating them after unloading, none of them are terribly simple (in the time we had to react to the weakness). I decided it was better to have them repopulate rather than have the player be able to empty the world of gameplay too easily... I still think it is the better solution barring a really robust one that would have taken weeks we did not have. As much as I think it is the best possible solution, I admit I underestimated the response. Lesson learned.
I really should shut up about this game, not having played it ... but it does seem to me that heavily scripted well executed games are making it harder to do stuff like FC2, because now people's expectations are sky high, in terms of pacing, lack of bugs, etc etc ...
For instance:
Quote:
FC2, like Oblivion, does not have any sort of 'real' living world system, it's still all scripting designed to give an approximation of 'reality'. The problem with such systems is that while they do allow for cool things to happen, you're far more likely to see and remember when it doesn't work- people raking carpets or stealing (and getting caught) one apple at a time off a table
Do you think you would have said that 15 years ago? Would the odd AI raking a carpet have bothered you? Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that we are much more critical of this sort of thing now.
I guess this is not a bad thing in itself, but it's just a shame that the growth of the industry has been so lop sided, and we are in this position where knowledge about delivering good game experiences through game systems is so far behind expertise at delivering good game experiences with scripted events.
Shakey-Lo on 18/12/2008 at 08:22
I do agree with you, I think there's no doubt that FC2 is not as 'exciting' or action-packed as say COD4, but for me the freedom and the emergent elements more than make up for it, and that's why I like it so much. It's not that players don't
like these things, it's that they don't
care about them, so if a game has these things but is not as 'awesome' as COD4 then they dismiss it as mediocre.
I didn't mean this to be a FC2 thread though.
edit: RPS have put up a similar retrospective look at 2008, with a slightly different tone: (
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/top-10-angry-internet-man-angerers-of-2008/) Top 10 Angry Internet Men Angerers of 2008
EvaUnit02 on 18/12/2008 at 12:25
Ubisoft is gradually becoming the new "old EA".
Right, Far Cry 2 is one game that according to anecdotal evidence, needed more polish. They could've done this post-release through patches for all three platforms. Eg the respawn rate of guard stations is one of those things that could've easily been tweaked with a patch.
Fact of the matter is, Ubisoft have horrible after-sales support for their products, that goes for PC and consoles. Just go take a look at the official forum for Far Cry 2 or Rainbow Six Vegas 2. I.e. There's an outstanding sound bug where gunfire can get stuck in a loop in the multiplayer mode of Vegas 2 for 360.
Zygoptera on 18/12/2008 at 20:42
Quote Posted by Chade
Do you think you would have said that 15 years ago? Would the odd AI raking a carpet have bothered you? Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that we are much more critical of this sort of thing now.
I'd agree in general. It's probably because most of the other aspects defining verisimilitude have improved- graphics are more realistic etc- but a lot of the AI behaviours haven't really. If you see a reasonably realistic looking AI in a reasonably realistic looking environment doing something obviously unrealistic it stands out a lot more than a 2d, stylised or low poly one doing the same unrealistic thing, and is expected a lot less.
Chade on 18/12/2008 at 21:40
Yeah, agreed ... :)
On a separate note, I am actually overall really quite happy with the way the games industry is heading at the moment. I think there are some nice trends in motion. They are not necesarily the trends I was hoping for ten years ago, but compared to five years ago I think a lot of exciting stuff is happening.
1) The continued rise in mainstream recognition of the "indie scene"
2) User generated content making it's way onto the consoles and "mainstream gaming"
3) The rise of "alternative" games aimed at older non-traditional gaming audiences
It seems the gaming indsutry is really diversifying at the moment, which I think is fantastic. It doesn't seem outlandish to say that in ten years time families may play games together and create content together the way they currently watch tv together. If that does happen, I will be pretty excited ...
sh0ck3r on 19/12/2008 at 02:59
Quote Posted by Chade
Yeah, agreed ... :)
It seems the gaming indsutry is really diversifying at the moment, which I think is fantastic. It doesn't seem outlandish to say that in ten years time families may play games together and create content together the way they currently watch tv together. If that does happen, I will be pretty excited ...
that is quite a dystopian vision, at least to me
also unlikely. most gamers don't create content so i don't see families really digging it.
Chade on 19/12/2008 at 03:46
Dystopian? Am curious as to why ...
Re: user generated content ... traditionally the tools have been geared towards power rather then fun. It looks like the idea of user generated content as being something that can be "fun for everyone" is starting to gain traction.
sh0ck3r on 24/12/2008 at 21:31
I'm not saying it's new to 2008, but breadcrumbs/directional arrows have been prominent in games I've played lately (Bioshock, Fallout 3, Dead Space) and I think it's bad because it gives developers an excuse to be lazy in level design, i.e., "Who cares if this ship/house actually has a logical and fluid design because the gamer can (and is intended to) run right through it; let's just slap together a nonsensical maze of a level and give the player a directional arrow."
a bit of the charm of old games, though frustrating, was actually in not knowing where the hell you were and then realizing you're on the right path.
can you imagine SS2 with a directional arrow? :eww:
as for the whole families designing levels question, well I just associate your idea with all the superfluous electronic toys being marketed at young kids; it rather irritates me watching commercials that market these trite little gaming devices as educational and nourishing for 3-year-olds. and further, I just cannot think of any mother beyond someone mildly trashy wolfing down McDonald's who would care about making content for a game.
