Jomero on 4/11/2004 at 17:15
I think any romantic feelings Garrett might have seemed to have for Victoria were placed there by fans' wishful thinking. They either themselves like Victoria and like the idea of the character they are playing to be attracted to her, or they just want to see Garrett in a romantic relationship.
Garrett had no romantic feelings towards Victoria.
theBlackman on 4/11/2004 at 17:20
Quote Posted by Swiss Mercenary
Wah, another one of these threads..? Aren't we supposed to be so entralled by DS that we sell our souls to Eidos..? :erm:
Guess I've missed the programme.
In this case it sure seems like it. The discussion is NOT about T DS. It is about a situation from the first two (three if you count GOLD) games.
So, yes, you missed the progamme.
ten on 4/11/2004 at 18:05
Quote:
Garrett had no romantic feelings towards Victoria.
But Viki almost certainly would have wanted him to. She needed his help quite badly -- I doubt she cared for Garrett, but she'd have exploited any avenue to bind him to her more closely. She probably had tools to try with: some plants are able to mimic animal pheromones, and she did choose to inhabit an attractive form.
On Garrett's side -- if she was *just* an ally, why did he react differently to news of her demise than to news of Basso's capture? Or Cutty's death? (Or whoever it was that caught that arrow in "Assassins.") He'd presumably worked with those fences for months or years, while he only met Viki a handful of times (and one of those wasn't pleasant by a long shot.)
Hey, Jomero -- you're right near me! I'll wave from the U. :)
DuskHour on 4/11/2004 at 19:55
Quote Posted by ten
But Viki almost certainly would have wanted him to. She needed his help quite badly -- I doubt she cared for Garrett, but she'd have exploited any avenue to bind him to her more closely. She probably had tools to try with: some plants are able to mimic animal pheromones, and she did choose to inhabit an attractive form.
This is certainly a reasonable assertion, and I'd believe that towards the beginning of their partnership, this was Viktoria's mentality. But looking again at the Sabotage at Soulforge cutscene: "After that it will be up to you... my good thief..." Those last three words, sounding for all the world like a deathbed confession, just stand out to me that there was more on her mind of Garret than she let on. It isn't unusual for someone to use seduction to extort a person, and end up falling in love with them - all acting has to come from somewhere, even if it's buried very deep.
Quote Posted by ten
(one fairly acrobatic but not very explicit example from pompeii.)
LOL! Not explicit? Is that nymph doing what I think she's doing?
And lastly, I don't think it's reasonable, to the people who've said so, to say that normal human feelings are "totally out of character" for Garret. Just because someone acts like a self-centered hardass all the time doesn't mean they are one, especially in Garret's line of work.
VampThief on 4/11/2004 at 20:32
It is sometimes spoken by the ancient wood nymphs of the maw that a hooded thief like figure was often seen milkin himself against a wooden lady.
V - Thief
Although i believe given time they wood had hit it off. There is a cut scene in TMA in where you can hear the emotion in her voice for him...
TheNightTerror on 4/11/2004 at 20:39
I've always thought there might've been a little extra 'something' in Garrett in Viktoria's relationship. Mainly because of how much Garrett warms up to Viktoria after he completes Kidnap. Last thing he said in the cutscene before Kidnap was, "Viktoria had better appreciate all the trouble I'm going through." Next cutscene, suddenly he almost seems friendly with Viktoria. If Garrett were, ahem, 'rewarded for a job well done,' shall we say, I could almost see him being sarcastic and dancing around the topic like he almost seems to be.
But then, it's like me to take a perfectly innocent situation and find something kinky or perverted about it, so . . . :erg:
Vogelfrei on 5/11/2004 at 17:31
Well spoken, DuskHour. I was about to post something quite similar monday morning, as I had done it before in another forum, but then a week of hard work began. :(
I think it's a good thing that she died in the end, after all, and Garrett knows it.
Not only because it made him really go mad and save the City and the world and so on - but also because they would not have been able to be together in any way other than fight. They are and they stay - with a short interruption - enemies. Their goals are totally different, as has been mentioned above. And the biggest problem would be the City. Garrett loves it and needs it and Viktoria hates it and wants to destroy it. That is no real basis for a relationship as these goal are totally contrary and the other option is no option, for both sides.
They have things in common (independence, humour...) and I personally am sure that they were in love, both, and both without accepting it, just because this can not be. But I also saw the development of their relationship during Metal Age. They get really friendly and respectful against each other towards the end.
I would say that Garrett's words in the first mission only support the tragic of all that. Because they are true.
In Dark Project he had to learn that being a master thief does not prevent him from making mistakes and get into real trouble. In Metal Age he had to learn that being a master thief who has succesfully overcome his arrogant pretentiousness does not prevent him from having emotions - and that they can be both, bitter and sweet. (Wow, pathetic. :D )
In my eyes Viktoria was one of the two people in his life that were ever important to him. The other one was Artemus. And now that both are dead, there is no inbalance left in him. (Well, maybe except for some selfishness. :) )
Jomero on 8/11/2004 at 17:05
1. Garrett's already spoken about how he views romantic feelings.
2. Viktoria ripped his eye out. Never uttered one apology.
And you guys still think he was falling for her? Think what you want, but jeez. Any real-life guy, let alone the Garrett, would have a hard time overcoming the above 2 concerns (especially the second).
But, I guess some of you just won't be happy until you're picturing Garrett and Viktoria running through field of tall grass in slow-motion with Air Supply's "Every Woman in the World" playing in the background.
Vogelfrei on 8/11/2004 at 17:27
Quote Posted by Jomero
Never uttered one apology.
Viktoria and Garrett watching that ugly gas destroying every living bit around, deep in thoughts about how to stop Karras...
V: Erm, Garrett?
G: What.
V: In case we don't see each other again - sorry for ripping you eye out.
:weird:
I don't think it would be her if she apologized. It wouldn't be Garrett either to want her to do it. It could implement something both do not want to be there. Furthermore they are both not the sorry-kind - merely the one who pay back with deeds.
Quote Posted by Jomero
But, I guess some of you just won't be happy until you're picturing Garrett and Viktoria running through field of tall grass in slow-motion with Air Supply's "Every Woman in the World" playing in the background.
:cheeky: Someone should make a video of that.
...
Don't look at me!
No, really. The cool thing on that "love-story" is that noone gets happy. It just could not work, even if they would accept any feelings.
That is true pain.
Inline Image:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/icons/icon15.gifSirBlade on 8/11/2004 at 19:45
When Garret and Viktoria meet after "A trail of blood" Viktoria mixes her blood with Garrets blood on a rock.
V: "I've put vengeance aside. The earth keeps my promise for me. Now you
have my oath on it, I'm cursed if I break the covenant, now your answer."
G: "I... agree..."
V: "Good. The Earth keeps your promise for you."
What exactly does this covenant mean? A truce while we take care of a mutual enemy? Or something more?
In norse mythology Odin and Loki drank eachother blood and became "brothers". Voodoo-dolls with a piece of somebody are said to be able to control people. Cannibalisme/blood-drinking will give you the powers/skills of the victem. Many "primitive" cultures still believe in those kind of rituals
On Garrets world magic is real...and powerfull. And with the death of the trickster Viktoria is probably the most powerfull practitioner of pagan magic.
It's never said Garret has magical skills or powers (the only keepers who can do magic are the elders and Garret left when he was an acolyte/novice), all he's got are great skill and talent. So i doubt he would have proctection against magic.
I don't find it unlikely Garrets feelings towards Viktoria would have been influenced by that covenant.
And perhaps Garret and Victoria didn't became lovers, but "brother and sister".
