Ombrenuit on 17/11/2004 at 22:56
Here is my take, Garrett was not in love with Viktoria, to explain some things in different light:
When he said "Don't wait up", obviously he was joking. What do you think? Poking a little fun at your enemies (with sarcasm) is something Garrett would definitly do.
Secondly: "Viktoria..." Obviously, her death pissed him off in the cut scene because she did not give him a choice on what to do with Karras. As you may recall, he had his own plans to wait and watch and she told him that they had no time. He walked out, but when the keeper told him that Viktoria was staging a siege he went to the Cathedral. He was angry at her death because she was forcing his hand. Now he had to follow by her rules and her plan to defeat Karras that very instant. Now he has to put his neck on the line to sabotage Karass because of Viktoria at a time and place he did not choose. I don't think a love interest was hinted AT ALL, this was Garrett's frustration at her sacrifice and what he must now carry out.
Brother Uriel on 18/11/2004 at 05:02
I agree with a bit from everyone. I don't think that Garrett and Viktoria were thinking about each other romantically. I do think that they were becoming sort\of friends. I remember first thinking that during the briefing for "Life of the Party". Garrett and Viktoria seemed to be starting to act more comfortable around each other. I think he was really pissed because he might have cared about her as a friend and ally. I definitely agree with Ombrenuit though, because although Garrett might have been a bit angry that Viktoria was killed, he was probably even MORE angry that she forced him into doing things her way. Now he indeed DID have to do everything the way she wanted, and follow her plan, which he clearly stated he thought was stupid and would get them both killed.
But as for the main discussion of romance however, no, I don't think so. Allies, at best starting to be friends (and there would be a lot of lingering anger), but not romantic.
-Brother Uriel
dr. cello on 18/11/2004 at 11:08
Having watched the cutscene again, there's no way Garrett's just peeved that she's forced his hand. When the Keeper informs him that Viktoria 'has begun an assault on the mechanist cathedral', he says that he is 'here as your friend, Garrett.' Garrett responds with the word 'no', not in a manner of 'damn it, not now', but in one of 'she's going to die'. Of obvious concern.
Upon arriving in the cathedral, Garrett runs up shouting 'Viktoria', again, with the voice of obvious concern. Just before she dies, as she preludes her suicide and says 'Then it will be up to you... my good thief', Garrett says, as if panicking, 'Wait, Viktoria, let's get--' and then 'Viktoria!' in a last desperate attempt to stop her. After she has died, he utters the name of Karras with malice that is reserved for the most bitter of one's foes. It is a passionate fury, not a cold one; he is not displeased that he had to act early, he is utterly enraged that his ally/friend/lover/what-have-you has been slain by this man.
Vogelfrei on 18/11/2004 at 17:47
Quote Posted by Brother Uriel
I don't think that Garrett and Viktoria were thinking about each other romantically.
Neither do I. They were enemies - even if allied temporary - and they knew it. Not even a friendship or continuing the alliance would have been possible after the fall of Karras.
She wants to destroy the city, make the world a huge wild and dangerous forest. Garrett is and has always been the one to save that city. None of them would ever abandon their goals, so they
must be enemies.
But this does not change the fact that they were (in my eyes) in love. Nobody, not even a masterthief, can control that. And you have to admit that she is the only 'woman' who ever somehow reached him, in power, independence and sarcasm.
He on the other hand must be one of the very few humans who ever reached her in these points.
There were definitly feelings, at least in the eyes of Stephen Russel (and in mine). No matter how forbidden, unwelcome or impossible they were, they were there.
Vervane on 19/11/2004 at 12:52
Quote Posted by ten
I'll second Vogelfrei. Perhaps Viktoria's differences are a *principal* reason for Garrett's (potential) involvement with her. Remember: Garrett makes his living taking other people's precious, beloved things. That would have to make him very paranoid about losing his own beloved things. Viki's the only female-like-being who, if she survives, will never really be a liability for him. (There are some male-like-beings too, but maybe that gets off the topic a little...)
Thats funny I thought I agreed with Vogelfrei, too. I think as Garrett despises any feelings, falling in love with someone isn't a thing he decides pro or against with rational reasons. From my point of view, he WAS in love. But not because of deciding this but because he isn't that immune against feelings as he holds himself to be.
And I agree with dr. cello 11, Garrett says his ‘no' in a 'she's going to die'-way. And his 'Wait, Viktoria, let's get-.. Viktoria!', he says in a ‘no please don't do that, please don't die'-way.
I think MA would lame, sad and bleak if Garrett would come out just the same invulnerable Anti-Hero as he did come in. I guess he is quite suffering from Victorias death, especially as she actually preferred giving her life for the things that she loved to running away with him. hm. but maybe THAT gets off the topic, really.
ZumBies on 19/11/2004 at 22:31
Garrett and Viktoria both showed feelings for each other. I do not believe that this was love. Many of you posted clippings and fragments of cut scenes that hint love was in the air, but look at it another way.
Garrett and Viktoria have a foundation of friendship. The dramatic cut scene at the end colored the storyline. Garret, with his deep hatred and anger pointed at Karras after Viktoria snuffed out her own life, showed some sympathy. This foundation started to hold structures of friendship. Their determination to stop the rampaging evil was the wood and the strength of their hearts was the nails. Friendship can be just as hard to loose sometimes. Garrett didn't want to risk it all for her but he would protect her.
Secondly, Garrett needed to steal; that was his life. It paid the bitter old woman and covered his butt. He knew another person in his life would steer him into a dark hole surrounded by cold earth. Basically, the job was first and a wife was second.
Thirdly, the desperate cry at the end could be present when you losing a dear "friend." They were friends and their cry at the end showed this was not love. Even the mighty cold heart of Garrett would break when losing a friend. Viktoria knew that her flame was up and knew her sturdy frame of a mighty building would crumble.
Garrett and Viktoria would be friends, forevermore; nothing more and nothing less.
Vogelfrei on 20/11/2004 at 00:02
Maybe it's just hard to say where friendship ends and love begins. I personally do think that it was either a very strong friendship or already love.
Although I agree that there was not really a sexual aspect or anything physical (not only because they are, uhm, kind of different). In my eyes it was always subliminal. They felt that their feelings against each other grew more positive but they did not (want to) see any real emotion in this change, rather just a convenient effect of the alliance.
dr. cello on 20/11/2004 at 05:13
In other words, you can argue to the death over whether or not Garrett and Viktoria had romantic feelings for or involvements with each other, but it'd take some very creative (read: faulty) interpretations of the material to deny a friendship. Somewhere in the quote file, the devs commented on that. I believe the phrase 'medieval moonlighting' was used.
Brother Uriel on 20/11/2004 at 05:33
I'm not directly arguing for the romantic or love point, as I expressed I don't think it was quite that exactly. One piece of information that I don't think was mentioned so far was the very ending bit of the cutscene with Karras dying. Where Garrett is feeling the dissolved rust gas, and says something like "So all this was written? Viktoria's death... and Karras'? In your prophecies and books?". Not a direct quote but something very similar to that. Artemis, or whoever the Keeper was who was present, said "Yes, all was as it was written." Garrett sounded pissed off as he asked his question, making me think that he meant something along the lines of "So, you knew Viktoria was going to die, and things were going to work out this way... and didn't tell me ahead of time, so I could try and prevent it?".
Just a small mention. I say they were sort of friends, but the anger and difference in goals would prevent them from carrying this further (direct agreement with Vogelfrei).
-Brother Uriel
Blood Dragon on 20/11/2004 at 07:42
Agree with Brother Uriel and Volgelfrei
