theBlackman on 4/10/2010 at 18:43
Quote Posted by van HellSing
Failed YOUR MOM.
Typical childish response.
Take it back to the sandbox and play with your 5 year old peers.
van HellSing on 4/10/2010 at 19:00
As if talking about "real" Thief fans (as opposed to those who do not feel TDS was UNWORTHY or those who think a revamped swordplay mod would be a fun diversion) is not childish.
theBlackman on 4/10/2010 at 21:36
Shooters are shooters. Thief is not a combat game and should not be. If that floats your boat, then have at it but that's not THIEF.
Regardless of how many think so, thief is not a combat game.
It is a game that requires that you think and plan, a skill that is absent in too many games and individuals today.
As for mothers, leave them out of your prattling. I don't insult your background or parentage, nor do others who express opinions, but then most of the posters are more mature.
My comment about your peergroup and its apparent mentaliy fits most of your postings.
Vantek on 4/10/2010 at 22:01
I suspect the reason they removed the motions had nothing to do with Garrett-being-a-thief-not-swordsman, and everything to do with the extreme difficulty of making such a system controllable, fluent, consistent, and understandable by the AI.
Can you imagine how you would control all these moves on the keyboard? And a high variation of swings is a nightmare to turn into barely consistent physics. Just look at the video: the first time the guard gets hit in the hand, and does a completely inappropriate animation. The killing blow looks really dumb as well, I don't even understand what's going on. And some time before that, there was a strike blocked by the guard which didn't appear to even connect, yet there was a blocking sound and animation. And during the whole fight the guard looked like a complete moron hopping back and forth not knowing what to do.
There is already a lot of such weaknesses in the Thief we know with only three different strikes. Imagine how bad it would be with a bigger variety of strikes. Swordfighting would almost exclusively consist of wrong animations and be impossible to get a good feel of. You land a fancy 540 degree diagonal strike and it looks like it sneaked past the guard's sword and hit him hard in the chest, but oh no, the game physics engine decides that the guard blocked. Then you do one of those uprising swings on the side and it looks like it missed completely, but wow, the game engine decides that it connected. The guard stumbles backwards as if something smashed into his torso from the front, although even if we accept that your strike did hit, the only logical possibility would have been to chop into the guard's arm. And so on.
Garrett recieving a variety of blows is OK, because 1) a human does not have to input these blows using a keyboard, and 2) we don't see Garrett. Wether the blow comes from up, left, right, down, front, back, up left, down right, or wherever, the only change in what we see is that some of the health icons disappear. Garret dealing a variety of blows, however? You'd need an insanely detailed physics engine to get all of the endless possibilities to look right. And good luck getting the controls to be anything better than very complicated.
theBlackman on 4/10/2010 at 23:05
Well said.
Beleg Cúthalion on 5/10/2010 at 09:50
Just as a side-note: Mount & Blade has a very simple yet effective sword fighting system using only the mouse and allowing even feints (according to some forum threads) which is somehow similar to that of Thief. In general you won't come any close to realistic sword fights in computer games. I had hoped for something with Wii but AFAIK there isn't any significant game release yet, is there?
Otherwise, well, it was just a mod idea. Or do you bug Yandros for his deathmatch FMs?
ManicMan on 5/10/2010 at 15:56
Problem with the Wii's control system is that.. it's old and you aren't going to really get anything very advance. but that's a little off topic ^_^
What i was going to comment about is the Game Tresspasser (or, as it is more known 'Jurassic Park: tresspasser). In it, you play a girl that has broken one arm in a plane crash and you get full control of the remaining arm. This gives some great control as you not only have to move the arm up and around, but move the wrist as well. While some fine this very trickly, it's not too hard to get the hand of. Something like Firing a gun becomes a fair bit harder cause you need to arm with both arm and wrist, as well as dealing with recoil.. Something this advanced (the whole game was state of the art at the time and most of it is still way more advance then alot of games try) would be a pain for thief but possible to give a great control system.. Just picture it, not only do you need to ready your bow, aim, take into account weight and type of arrow, but you have to deal with recoil from the bow (some can give one hell of a kick if you aren't use to them), you also need to make sure if you move around, you don't move your hand wrongly and drop the arrow from the bow more then fire it..
Anyway.. While alot of us might say we want thief to have more advance features and more realistic, how many of us truely believe that? A good example is lock-picking. In thief, it was the simple pick your lock pick and wait, but in DS, it get alot more advance, but at the same time, you only had 1 pick, instead of two types.. While if you are playing well, you shouldn't need to pick in a hurry, at times, it was very much likeble to do so, DS made the picking more 'realisic' but it meant lock-picking was a longer and partly harder process. This seamed to have been noted by designers and there seamed to be alot less Locks to pick.
Anyway.. While as thief, garrett shouldn't need to fight, apart from rare cases where it is either best or easier to take out some enemies with arrows or a back slash, having someone work out how to do it, might be intresting for Non Garrett Missions. I don't think i hid that fact that i don't quite like it when people convert an engine into thief, cause if you want to play thief, there IS an engine already made for it, and i'm not a big fan of combat missions, but I always thought that a mission where you were, say, a Hammerite who's church was being invailded by a thief, might be intresting.. Seeing the world from the guards point of view really.
And one thing people need to remember: Just cause it's there, doesn't mean you need to use it!
In Thief 2: Flares were introduced. I rarely use them. But they are there. You have a sword, broadhead arrows etc, just cause they are there, doesn't mean you need to use them. If someone does try to make it possible for a 'guard like' control combat system, doesn't mean every fan mission maker HAS to use it. Some missions would be able to use it well and give intresting takes on either guards, police officers, or maybe playing as a pagan that doesn't seam to care if they attack or sneak, as long as the job is done. Personally, i always wanted to see if people can work on chaning the player size in relation to the world. Sure, you could just make the whole mission bigger, but about a mission where you play as a taller guy? or smaller guy? (For example, when palaying Garrett's Younger Years, it would have been better to get the feel that THIS garrett is younger and smaller, but i didn't get that).
anyway. this rant is getting to an end.. but personally, to no-one in particular, if you are going to throw an insult at someone, try to do it in a more ... I can't say Grown up, cause too many grown ups I know are a bit.. bad, but state your point of view and reason, if possible. Don't just throw blind insults (erm.. Question to americans: What does 'Your Mom' or 'Your Mother' mean in the form of an insult? I don't understand what it has to do with anything? If it was your father, maybe cause you would be calling them a bastard but still...)
ZylonBane on 11/10/2010 at 16:20
Quote Posted by ManicMan
What i was going to comment about is the Game Tresspasser (or, as it is more known 'Jurassic Park: tresspasser).
No, it's pretty much just known as "Trespasser".
Lancer on 12/10/2010 at 23:51
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
Well, you know, purists.
If Garrett had worn a pink tutu in DP, and someone would have pointed out that it's not exactly the sneakiest garb in the world, they would be screaming and flaming "WTF OMG how dare you it's canon he is the greatest master thief ever he can wear damn well what pleases go fuck yourself DS fanboy!!!!!"
Or something similar, anyway.
Freaking classic! Awesome! :thumb:
Stan_The_Thief on 17/10/2010 at 06:43
Quote Posted by Keyla The Otter
Apparently, way back in 1996, Garrett was able to fight like a guard.
Apparently, at that time he also had a crossbow (or a sideways-pointing bow) and he could shoot as fast as a Mechanist crossbow guard:
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkJ4vDrRytY)
