june gloom on 16/11/2012 at 22:08
(
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/9677782/Hamas-military-chief-killed-in-Gaza-air-strike.html) It's happened again. Someone pissed Israel off enough that they've gone and stomped all over Gaza one more time.
Compared to the conflict a couple years ago this doesn't seem quite as large-scale (yet) but we'll see.
Got a few pro-Gaza posts on my Facebook feed which always makes me roll my eyes. I'm not saying Israel is all pure and good but claiming Palestine -- or Hamas in particular -- is innocent in any of this shows a staggering level of ignorance and susceptibility to propaganda, a not insignificant portion of which is borne out of anti-Semitic sentiment. Or maybe it's just a plain old privileged white kid reaction to Israel's show of force -- an organized military, which as we in the Western Hemisphere Commie Lib Club all know, is Evil™ -- in an asymmetrical conflict.
Of course, being that I'm an obscure American living so far away, my opinion isn't too valuable; anyone closer to the conflict want to chip in?
Azaran on 16/11/2012 at 22:31
The thing with people unquestionably backing Hamas on this is that Israel's actions, as usual, far exceed anything the Palestinians do. In the Lebanon war a few years ago, Israel lost 13 people but killed
hundreds of civilians and left a trail of ruin. I'm not saying Hamas should be shooting rockets, but it's hard to have any sympathy for Israel in this situation. When Hamas shoots rockets,
even if those rockets hurt no one, you can be sure 10 Palestinians (a few of them civilians) will be dead soon after, and a neighbourhood will be in ruins. Unfortunately, America will continue to support them no matter what.
This cartoon sums it up well:
Inline Image:
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6286/israelisidelatuff.jpgjune gloom on 16/11/2012 at 22:43
I'm surprised nobody's ever told you this, but nothing in this world is ever that simple or black and white. Israel goes out of its way to avoid civilian casualties, partly because no other country goes under the scrutiny that they do (nevermind that most of the countries around them are filled with people
who want them all dead) but Hamas intentionally makes that difficult because they love using human shields. More to the point, Hamas
wants Palestinian civilian casualties -- so they can play up the victim status. Many death toll claims out of Palestine are trumped up for this very reason. Israel's actions create collateral damage, true, because it's kind of hard to root out military targets who are intentionally hiding among civilians. Meanwhile, Hamas' own claims of only targeting military installations is (
http://www.hrw.org/news/2010/01/28/gaza-hamas-report-whitewashes-war-crimes) bullshit. These people intentionally target (
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/100-hamas-rockets-targeting-israeli-schoolchildren/2012/11/12/) schools, for god's sake.
DDL on 16/11/2012 at 23:42
Thing is, both sides are dicks. I don't really think arguing over which side is the bigger bunch of dicks really helps.
Ultimately you have a bunch of crazy deathwish fucktards on the palestinian side who when faced with missile strikes respond with posturing shite like "YOU HAVE OPENED THE GATES OF HELL" (translation: "your paranoia is wholly justified"), and a bunch of massively overzealous military fucktards on the Israeli side who will do things like orchestrate a military strike on a Hamas member in the middle of a city, during a tentative ceasefire...and in the middle just fucktons of people who would probably like to get on with their lives without being blown up.
It's just...fucked up waaay past the "pointing fingers of blame" point.
Vivian on 16/11/2012 at 23:53
I totally agree with DDL. This is a case of everyone involved being flaming dickcheese about literally everything. Someone needs to remember they are an adult now and NOT FUCKING FIRE A ROCKET/BOMB IN RETALIATION FOR THE LAST ROCKET/BOMB and then maybe everyone's babies will stop getting fucking shelled to death. I'm not saying I have no sympathy but I am saying the situation is 100% fucking nurnur retarded.
Yakoob on 17/11/2012 at 00:24
Ah, I see these events are right on schedule for the 2012 apocalypse as predicted....
While I have no ill will towards the Jews or their faith, I have been growing and increasingly dislike towards Israel as a country, particularily studying the Palestine/Isreal conflict in my masters. Of course, as been pointed out, both sides are dicks to each other and probably deserve some sort of repercussions, but I've always been feeling Isreal has been slightly more at fault here. Starting from the fact it was them who effectively moved in and colonized the region, pushing Palestinians away, going as far as strategically planning out camp and settlement areas in order to disturb the remaining Palestinian population, preventing them from building a reasonable infrastructure of their own. Then there's also the fact Israel complains about all their neighbors hating them... when it is Isreal who has been consistently preemptively attacking one of them at least once a decade or so.
Now, granted, it's not just that simple and there is a lot of morally gray reasoning behind Israel's actions (such as self-defense), and Palestine hasn't always responded in the 'nicest' way either, but at the end of the day I just come off feeling that some of the political leaders of the country are just... twats. And the worst thing is, the propaganda and fear mongering is nicely rubbing off on the citizens too :erg:
SubJeff on 17/11/2012 at 00:26
Watch this.
Odd thing, to me, is that no one can ever tell me what they think their own government would or should do, faced with 120 rockets in a week from within a civilian population.
Nope. What I'll get is talking around the subject, the whys, the history, blah blah.
Just watch.
Kolya on 17/11/2012 at 00:38
Watch what? Also where are the strippers? This thread is full of fail. :(
SD on 17/11/2012 at 01:24
Quote Posted by Yakoob
it was them who effectively moved in and colonized the region
Yeah, I mean, it's not like they have any ancestral ties to the land or anything :rolleyes:
june gloom on 17/11/2012 at 02:02
The whole "both sides are equally dicks" thing is a fallacy. Take a look at the PLO charter some time. Oh, look, (
http://www.mideastweb.org/plocha.htm) here's a link for your convenience!
(
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_plo_charter_revise.php) Here's another!
Basically you have an entire para-governmental body more or less calling for the destruction of an entire UN member nation and the "liquidation" of its citizenry, and various groups have been attempting to achieve this goal for
decades, and the primary rationale is a religious/ethnic one. They intentionally and willfully target civilians, including children. How many times did you pick up a newspaper in the 90s and read about a suicide bomber killing dozens at a discotheque in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem? It happened so often it started to blur together for me.
Imagine you lived in a country surrounded by nations full of people who hated you and wished you dead, and some of whom would take active steps to harm you and your countrymen. How would you feel?
