General Fan Mission Review And Discussion Megathread

SneakyJack on 31/1/2009 at 22:15

The Mirror By Zontik

One of the frustrating things about this mission is that I want so badly to like it - I really do. Its obvious that a ton of work technically and otherwise was put into this mission - its very ambitious in what it tries to do.. which makes the little things that really got to me all that much more frustrating. I'm hoping that someday Zontik will consider releasing a special edition of this mission with a few changes - I know that I would definitely give it a re-play and re-review if that was the case.

This mission has you searching for a mysterious mirror and encountering the crazy events that unfold during your search. You find out that the mirror isnt the only thing that has been moving around behind the shadows.

The first thing that threw me on this mission was starting out in a somewhat modern setting with computers and electronic coffee makers - something that looks very weird and out of place in the dark engine.. and though you find out it was just a dream within the first minute or two of the mission - it still threw me a bit. That and the awful translation at the beginning that is supposed to be explaining the entire point of the mission to you - but is in such broken english that I wish the author would have just taken five minutes to seek out an english speaker to re-translate it into actual english that didn't come from a translation site. Honestly, just as bad as the mumbling in the Haddur series bothered me in one mission because I couldn't understand any of it - this one bothered me as well. I have no problem with the voice acting (which is good enough and not in english) being subtitled - but honestly - 90% of the translation makes no sense.

Quote:

Everything happens to occur for the first time some day.

An actual quote from the woman at the beginning of the mission giving you the entire point of the mission - most of which you'll really not understand. Reading that sentence more than once is not recommended, as your head will soon begin to ache.

So at this point I know there is a mirror, and that apparently DO NOT KILL UNARMED was in big letters and was one of the only things I understood - so we're off to be aimlessly thrown into the mission. Also apparently the person sending you out is not the woman but some mysterious benefactor that won't reveal themselves.

The mission itself is pretty fun from a gameplay perspective. There are some varied locations, a bit of mystery thrown in at one point and even a bit of thieves highway type roof jumping shenanigans to keep things fresh. But with the ledge and roof jumping comes another problem.. One of the jumps at the beginning (after climbing a tower) gives you a sliver of brick wall no thicker than one brick itself to first jump onto then off of - and I probably fell three times before actually catching the end of the brick BEFORE I could make the jump. Play this mission, you'll see what I mean.

Another thing that punched my ticket to frustration city was the bit of swimming under the mansion that saw me getting caught randomly on the tunnel for no apparent reason and drowning twice before I got to my destination. Not fun - I thought it may have been a fluke the first time but got caught again on a retry without getting close to the edges of the tunnel.

The shadow placement in the mansion itself is almost non-existent without using all your water arrows (which isnt a big deal) but it'd be nice to have an area here or there to hide that isnt completely under a set of stairs.

Now that all that is out of the way - this mission is still alot of fun. There is an interesting bit in the police station that you learn through readables has made your blackjack useless (so watch yourself!) and there are tons of nice technical tricks all over big and small (waving signs, an escalator, little touches that really add to the mission) and some humor as well (try blackjacking the picture of the guard in the watch station - very funny) and a good story as well.

This mission will take some time as there are lots of keys involved (three colored keys for one of the main gates that you must collect from completely different locations) so don't plan on finishing this one quickly - but there is alot of good stuff to be seen. Also - watch picking up the mirror when you find it - you might not be ready just yet.. thats all I'll say with that hint.

Aesthetically the mission looks very good. The locations are interesting and well built (some built into each other) and the area is fairly large that you end up covering. I do recommend this mission, but only if you have a decent amount of patience.

SneakyJack on 1/2/2009 at 19:09

Keeper Investigations Part 1: Dawn Of A New Age By Intruder

The Keeper Investigations series tells the story of the rise of the Mechanists after the defeat of the Trickster - and the twists and turns that follow. How will this rise effect the city? What exactly are they planning? Well, thats exactly what the keepers want you to investigate.

Part 1 starts out in the city with Garrett trying to get a hold on exactly what he is up against by following the keepers request. Filled with the now weakened Hammers, Mechanists and the City Watch - getting from one end to the other will be no easy task - though there will be plenty of loot and rooftop opportunities along the way.

Gameplay wise - this mission is very fun. Intruder knows what makes a fan mission fun - and displays it proudly in the first mission in the series. Lots of great shadows to keep you hidden, tons of building to building thieves highway activity (particularly well done, with a few different entryways into some of the buildings and houses) and a large amount of guards to hand deliver some naptime via blackjack. Though the city is heavily populated with guards on patrol - you have multiple routes at any one time to try your luck at sneaking past close quarters (which is possible) or to completely bypass from above, which is great fun. Short version: If you enjoy what makes thief fun, you will enjoy this mission.

As far as looks, this is a good looking mission. The texture choices were great (I particularly liked the red brick texture for some of the homes) and the architecture is very fun. The very beginning may hand you a drink of frustration with some of the rope arrow work (window ledges with shudders that come outward and a particularly difficult jump to a ledge) but overall don't push your patience far enough to worry about. The buildings are linked together very well, and jumping from roof to roof or building to building is easy leaving you with little to no frustrating falls.

Overall this mission is very solid and a great deal of fun to play - it will reward those who are brave with the rope arrows with a few secrets. During the first few minutes of the mission you may think it will be a quick in and out (I did) and a small area - but as you play it opens up further and further until you've covered a fairly large area.

A great start to the series, a very good mission overall and lots of fun. Highly recommended.

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww300/sneakyjack/keeper1-8.jpg) Warning: Spoiler Image Ahoy!

SneakyJack on 1/2/2009 at 19:30

Keeper Investigations Part 2: Ocean Freight By Intruder

Part two begins by having you follow the mechanists to a dock area where you'll soon discover that their mischief runs deeper than you thought.. No pun intended. (awful submarine joke!)

It is in this mission that Intruder's campaign really begins to shine. The entire mission takes place on a shipping dock that houses many buildings - each with their own unique "contents" so to speak. You'll encounter many different enemies from the thief universe within - and they are all placed well in that it makes sense for them to all be in such a location.

Gameplay wise this mission is my favorite of the three - It is a blackjack lovers paradise. One of the optional objectives on easy is not blackjacking more than 6 times during the entire mission (thanks to intruder for making that a bonus objective instead of a fail) but if you are anything like me, you'll easily finish with double or three times that amount. Not being a ghoster myself (and finding blackjacking the most satisfying way to proceed) I doubt I could keep it under six in this mission - it is pretty heavily populated.

Like the previous mission, Intruder manages to toe the line very well between challenge and overdoing it with how many enemies you will encounter. There are a ton of different foes in this mission but their patrol routes and placement are so well done that you'll never be frustrated or too far outmatched to where you cant sneak up or make your escape if need be. I really enjoy how many enemies the first two missions gave you to work with - it made the missions seem more active and "alive" rather than sparse and unpopulated.

As far as looks, this mission is a joy to play because of the construction. Water all around you for escape if need be, lots of wood textures make it nice on the eyes and overall very well done. The inside of the buildings are filled to the brim with shipping containers, loot and cargo of all kinds.

If you are a fan of pirate style missions, dock missions or anything involving water - this is where the campaign will really have the rubber meeting the road for you. I really can't find much negative to say about this mission other than I wish it had went on longer and been bigger - but thats more of a compliment (the mission is not that small at all) than a complaint.

Just like the first mission, this one is filled with things that make thief great, and is just alot of fun.

SneakyJack on 1/2/2009 at 19:48

Keeper Investigations Part 3: At The Wrong Party By Intruder

Part three has finding yourself on a ship with the only sound being your own breath after a mysterious event in the first few seconds of the mission leaves the crew slain and you looking for answers.

This one is a complete departure from the style of the other two in that you'll be working with much smaller areas and solving some fairly simple puzzles to find a way out of your current situation.

Gameplay wise this mission was probably my least favorite of the three so far, but it is by no means a boring or un-fun mission to play - just very different. Its hard to explain alot without giving away some of the best surprises, but I will say that this mission displays some fun technical tricks and has you practicing your diving skills much more than most fan missions.

Storywise the mission is excellent and really gives you a sense that something strange and terrible has happened - and you feel a mild panic of being alone on a ship and having to put together a makeshift plan to get yourself out of there. Unlike most fan missions however, you'll be spending more time outside the ship than in most likely. Again, more excellent readables further the story of what the crew were working on before the event.

I look forward to parts four and five and finding out what happens with the story - and I'm sure Intruder will not disappoint when he releases the next installment in the series.

Only a few screens due to this being a smaller mission and me not wanting to give away everything. I tried to get a few good shots of the open sea and skyline, but it completely washed out when I tried adjusting the brightness and contrast like I normally do so I couldn't use them.

SneakyJack on 1/2/2009 at 19:55

So far we're at 41 missions and counting! If anyone has used the screenshots or recommendations by myself or others to check out missions you might have missed - please let us know what you thought after you played the missions - regardless of whether you agreed or disagreed with our thoughts. I'd like to hear many more opinions on missions. Also, I'm not trying to hog the show here - I'd like to see screenshots and reviews from everyone else as well!

d'Spair on 2/2/2009 at 19:15

Nothing annoys me more than seeing computers or water closets in Thief missions.

Tannar on 2/2/2009 at 19:39

I agree with everything you said about The Mirror and the Keeper Investigations campaign SneakyJack. Reading what you wrote, it was as if I had written it myself!

I only made that jump in The Mirror successfully one time, after over a hundred tries!! :laff: I really enjoyed the mission though. But this is one mission I would never have been able to get through without help from the forum.

I eagerly await the rest of the Keeper Investigations campaign. I just love intruder's work! :thumb:

intruder on 2/2/2009 at 20:18

That you picked my missions and gave them so good credits really honors me SneakyJack!
For the last missions of Keeper Investigations I can promise that it will be a mix of completely different settings / locations again.

I showed this thread to a friend of mine who allways complains about the "outdated" look of the DarkEngine. After he had seen some of your screenshots from Seven Sisters and A Night In Rocksbourg he was really impressed ;)

SneakyJack on 2/2/2009 at 21:00

Quote Posted by d'Spair

Nothing annoys me more than seeing computers or water closets in Thief missions.

I think done in the right context (a futuristic mission) it is alright - but beginning The Mirror out with that was really offbase, even if it was a flashback or dream. Starting out on past thief and then flashing to present would have worked alot better. I don't know if anyone quit after seeing the computer on the first screen, but I thought about it the first time I played the mission, to be honest.

Quote Posted by Tannar

I'm glad someone relates - I was kinda worried bout the tone of my review and people thinking I was slamming it for small reasons - but really - when you make gameplay completely frustrating or break immersion it really isnt a small thing. And I agree that after you get over those bumps it really is a well put together mission.

Quote Posted by intruder

I remember being a tester for the first mission - and when I sent you my suggestions you were really great about taking feedback and you seemed to have fixed or changed most of the things that people suggested to you - probably my most pleasant testing experience thus far. And trust me, I've had a bad one or two - some folks here should not ask for testing if they are just going to make comments like "if you found (random advice) frustrating then you need to have better thief skills). I still to this day refuse to comment on said authors missions or ever test for them again after how I was treated in that experience. Hell, the mission was released without some of the major stuff even changed or fixed. I didn't get to test two or three but they came out really great, and are a joy to play. I look forward to the next ones.

And about your friend - its awesome that you showed my shots to someone and they were impressed - I'm glad that I could play a small part in showing off some of the amazing work that authors like Lady Rowena and DrK put into these masterpieces for all of us to enjoy. Just trying to give back by sharing as many missions with folks as I can due to me not being able to handle making a mission of my own - its the least I can do :(

On a side note - I was replaying Durant recently and was on an elevator in the mechanist building when one of them shot a crossbow bolt at me that hit the elevator button - and sent me up to the next floor. Never had that happen before :laff:

intruder on 2/2/2009 at 21:52

Quote Posted by SneakyJack

Well this is indeed not fair to you. But I can understand this behavior from a certain point of view. If you put hundreds of hours of work into something and then you'll hand it to people who'll tear it appart and show you all of your faults and mistakes it can get frustrating. Then you'll sit until 4:00 in the morning in front of your PC, fixing things just to realize that on the day after that, the same problems reoccur. People who cannot deal with criticism from others, may say something stupid / bad in that situation.

But it is most important to be as friendly and kind to your testers as possibble because they are also doing a hard job. Voluntarily.
I was lucky to have very good testers (including you ;) ) for all of my 3 missions so far and it was fun to work with them.

Quote Posted by SneakyJack

And about your friend - its awesome that you showed my shots to someone and they were impressed

The one I showed the screenshots to is part of the game developing team I'm involved with at the university. Sometimes we have those small "arguments" how to solve a certain problem with our own game engine. He always comes up with "But in the SourceEngine they did ...." and my reply: "Yeah, they put that into Thief as well, about 10 years earlier" :D
So I showed him your screenshots to convince him that the DarkEngine ain't that bad. After viewing the screens he was like: "So where are the screenshots taken with the DarkEngine? I can't be them..."