Queue on 18/7/2013 at 13:02
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
So it's okay to shoot someone with a gun, but not okay to hit someone's head?
wtf?
Morally, no. According to Florida State law, if someone is attacking you, yes.
Let me ask you this, if someone is beating you about the head, won't stop, and you have a gun in a State that allows you to stand your ground... What would you do?
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What preceded Martin hitting Zimmerman? Only it's not clear that Zimmerman was walking back from the shops minding his own business before being randomly pounced on. How many opportunities did Zimmerman have to say sorry for bothering you and back away? Was it 0? 2? 3? Was Martin's life or well being in danger at any point?
Do any of us know?
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And just as importantly, if you've got a gun, is it okay to escalate a situation that increases the likelihood of using the same without being considered responsible at all?
If Martin had of had a gun on him, do you think he would have used it? And if he had, would he have been in the right?
Jason Moyer on 18/7/2013 at 13:04
Unless Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation, which seems unlikely given that he was getting ass kicked, there was no justification for physically assaulting him. You can't punch someone in the face because they're talking to you, even if they're yelling YEAH WHY DON'T YOU COME HERE AND PUNCH ME IN THE FACE YOU STUPID NIGGER. You still can't do it.
SubJeff on 18/7/2013 at 13:12
A. The winner of a fight is unrelated to who started the fight.
B. You can attack someone if their words and behaviour indicate that are about to attack you.
Dia on 18/7/2013 at 13:19
Quote Posted by Queue
Dia,
One side of my family owned slaves. The other side fought to end slavery.
There was a horse thief and a cop on my dad's side; mostly burgermeisters & soldiers on my mom's side. Oh, and a scandalous couple who married and had a baby seven months later (mom's side).
Viv; don't know what to tell you. I've seen the chart of my maternal ancestry and it was very extensive; though I only saw two 3'x3' sheets with tiny writing. Now I'm curious and thinking maybe I'll give my aunt a call to see how much it would cost to get copies (my expense, of course).
jay pettitt on 18/7/2013 at 13:20
Quote Posted by Queue
Morally, no. According to Florida State law, if someone is attacking you, yes.
Let me ask you this, if someone is beating you about the head, won't stop, and you have a gun in a State that allows you to stand your ground... What would you do?
What should Martin be allowed to do? It takes two to tango remember.
Look, the problem that I see here is that someone has been shot dead, yet very little is known. I can't say that Zimmerman wasn't behaving entirely reasonably and was forced to defend his life because of a situation that Martin forced onto him (though there's at least some reason to doubt it), if it was the other way around or somewhere between the two. Neither can you.
It's bad enough that a kid has been shot dead and no one can say to what degree the person what done it was responsible for that situation, what would be doubly bad though, is if murky circumstances were all you need to get away with shooting kids and black people. Or anyone else.
To be honest, I think someone should be all over Florida Police - 'cos I'm not sure they did their job. And if it wasn't complacency on their part then someone needs to go through the law books - 'cos something ain't right here.
Chimpy Chompy on 18/7/2013 at 13:20
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Even without knowing the particulars of the fight, based on everything leading up to it I'm confident in saying he's definitely the bad guy.
Can't agree with that. The particulars of the fight include who first turned to violence (or serious threats of it). It's not okay to batter someone just for following you around.
Well, I can agree Zimmerman is *a* bad guy, by which I mean dumbass cop-wanabee who kicked off a tragic situation. But the other party may have made unjustified decisions as well, that night.
DDL on 18/7/2013 at 13:24
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
You can't punch someone in the face because they're talking to you, even if they're yelling YEAH WHY DON'T YOU COME HERE AND PUNCH ME IN THE FACE YOU STUPID NIGGER. You still can't do it.
"I feel threatened!" *Blam*
...is apparently ok, though?
Phatose on 18/7/2013 at 13:46
Just you feel threatened? No. Any reasonable person would feel threatened? Yes.
It's set up that way for good reasons. For example, someone's got a gun pointed at you and is screaming you're gonna die. They shoot twice, miss, and you shoot back and kill them. Afterwards, it turns out the 'bullets' were actually blanks, so your life was never actually in danger, and now you're guilty of murder.
DDL on 18/7/2013 at 13:52
Those aren't good reasons, they're ....marginally less terrible reasons, at most.
If you're in a threatening situation, the ideal should be to defuse/avoid the situation, rather than shoot it.
(also, I'm not quite sure whether your example is supposed to be a pro or anti SYG situation: 'you're guilty of murder...if it weren't for SYG', or 'you're guilty of murder, period'? Also, I'm pretty sure even in a non-SYG state, being directly shot at is going to cut you a lot of slack, blanks or no)
Jason Moyer on 18/7/2013 at 13:54
Quote Posted by DDL
"I feel threatened!" *Blam*
...is apparently ok, though?
No, of course it isn't.
Inline Image:
http://moonbattery.com/zimmerman-injuries.jpgSomeone doing that to you? Yeah, I wouldn't feel bad plugging them, sorry.
