faetal on 18/7/2013 at 23:47
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Hitting someone is beyond being a dick. The world is full of dicks (shut up) and that doesn't mean you can go around slugging people. I've had someone "profile" me because I'm a Jeff Bridges-looking scraggly motherfucker (thanks Dethy) who walks several miles every day with a backpack, accusing me of stealing his mail, and while I could have felt threatened and beaten the shit out of him I dealt with the situation diplomatically. I've had a woman open a gash in my thigh that covered my entire leg with blood, and my reaction was shaking my head and calling her a stupid whore (because, frankly, some people just are stupid whores). If someone punches me in the face repeatedly or continues to try to despite my warnings to calm the fuck down, they deserve what they get. Period.
Oh yes, for SURE! Everyone who interferes with anyone's day should be shot through the chest! That should be the DEFAULT response, for sure!
faetal on 18/7/2013 at 23:48
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
If someone punches me in the face repeatedly or continues to try to despite my warnings to calm the fuck down, they deserve what they get. Period.
And of course you know for certain that's what happened.
faetal on 18/7/2013 at 23:51
Quote Posted by catbarf
I'm saying that the notion that Martin couldn't possibly have been doing anything suspicious is asinine considering he has a history of relevant criminal activity. For all we know he could have been scoping out potential burglary targets along the way and this is what Zimmerman saw and reported to the 911 dispatcher. We simply don't know, but it seems ridiculous to me to assume that Zimmerman could not have any possible reason besides racial prejudice to report him.
This is illustrating why I mentioned character assassination. You think that the man who killed Martin must have somehow
known about his past or could somehow detect it from his behaviour. If this is the case, then perhaps Martin
knew that Zimmerman had been served a restraining order for domestic violence or had been arrested for assaulting a police officer.
It cuts both ways.
Phatose on 19/7/2013 at 00:54
Quote Posted by faetal
This is illustrating why I mentioned character assassination. You think that the man who killed Martin must have somehow
known about his past or could somehow detect it from his behaviour. If this is the case, then perhaps Martin
knew that Zimmerman had been served a restraining order for domestic violence or had been arrested for assaulting a police officer.
It cuts both ways.
I'm pretty sure he means that people with criminal pasts tend to be criminals, and behave in a criminal-like way, and that's what Zimmerman saw. It's not "GZ knew about TM's past", it "TM's past paints him as a criminal, and that's pretty good reason to at least suspect he was in fact behaving in a shady manner."
catbarf on 19/7/2013 at 00:56
Quote Posted by faetal
This is illustrating why I mentioned character assassination. You think that the man who killed Martin must have somehow
known about his past or could somehow detect it from his behaviour.
No, I'm saying that
maybe the kid who had been caught with stolen jewelry in the past could have actually been, say, scoping out houses on his way home, and Zimmerman saw and reported that.
Maybe the fact that he had a criminal past makes the idea that he might have actually been acting suspiciously and not necessarily been the 100% innocent target of blatant racism a little more believable. Why is this so hard to understand?
SubJeff on 19/7/2013 at 00:57
Quote Posted by Phatose
I'm pretty sure he means that people with criminal pasts tend to be criminals, and behave in a criminal-like way, and that's what Zimmerman saw. It's not "GZ knew about TM's past", it "TM's past paints him as a criminal, and that's pretty good reason to at least suspect he was in fact behaving in a shady manner."
That's total rubbish and you know it.
faetal on 19/7/2013 at 11:17
Quote Posted by catbarf
No, I'm saying that
maybe the kid who had been caught with stolen jewelry in the past could have actually been, say, scoping out houses on his way home, and Zimmerman saw and reported that.
Maybe the fact that he had a criminal past makes the idea that he might have actually been acting suspiciously and not necessarily been the 100% innocent target of blatant racism a little more believable. Why is this so hard to understand?
It still cuts both ways. If you're going to bring TM's past into it, then we must also consider GZ's. GZ was arrested for shoving a police officer (violence) and had a restraining order against him for domestic violence against his ex. So maybe TM could see that he was being stalked by a violent asshole and hence took measures to defend himself when approached. Now I think both arguments have too much hearsay, but this argument that TM might have been acting a bit shifty because of some infractions in his past is just risible. Even if it were the case, this does not mandate GZ going all gung-ho and following him while armed with a gun.
catbarf on 19/7/2013 at 12:18
Quote Posted by faetal
It still cuts both ways. If you're going to bring TM's past into it, then we must also consider GZ's. GZ was arrested for shoving a police officer (violence) and had a restraining order against him for domestic violence against his ex. So maybe TM could see that he was being stalked by a violent asshole and hence took measures to defend himself when approached. Now I think both arguments have too much hearsay, but this argument that TM might have been acting a bit shifty because of some infractions in his past is just risible. Even if it were the case, this does not mandate GZ going all gung-ho and following him while armed with a gun.
It's totally possible that George Zimmerman is an overly aggressive wannabe macho man who carries a gun to compensate for his poor physique. I'm thinking it's more than likely, even. So what? My point is that everyone crying racism is making the assumption that Zimmerman had no logical basis to suspect Martin so it must have been race. It's not about Martin 'acting a bit shifty because of some infractions in his past', it's that it is well within the realm of possibility that he was actually up to no good and Zimmerman's assessment was accurate and valid. Only two people know for certain and one of them is dead, but the idea that it is
impossible that Martin could be anything other than purely innocent child accosted for no reason and that it
must be racism is just stupid. We have no idea what really happened so to declare it racism is extremely presumptuous.
What, are you saying given Martin's past it's completely impossible that he was scoping out houses along the way home?
Briareos H on 19/7/2013 at 12:31
Considering how things seemed to have happened including Zimmerman's injuries and both parties' pasts, if Zimmerman had been convicted I'd have been happy to call it "two birds with one stone".
EDIT: I might not be entirely serious here, eh chaps.
faetal on 19/7/2013 at 14:11
Quote Posted by catbarf
It's totally possible that George Zimmerman is an overly aggressive wannabe macho man who carries a gun to compensate for his poor physique. I'm thinking it's more than likely, even. So what? My point is that everyone crying racism is making the assumption that Zimmerman had no logical basis to suspect Martin so it must have been race. It's not about Martin 'acting a bit shifty because of some infractions in his past', it's that it is well within the realm of possibility that he was actually up to no good and Zimmerman's assessment was accurate and valid. Only two people know for certain and one of them is dead, but the idea that it is
impossible that Martin could be anything other than purely innocent child accosted for no reason and that it
must be racism is just stupid. We have no idea what really happened so to declare it racism is extremely presumptuous.
What, are you saying given Martin's past it's completely impossible that he was scoping out houses along the way home?
What background? What convictions does Martin have? The fact that the press were able to dig up an accusation of jewellery theft and that he smokes pot does not mean that he's probably a burglar who scopes out any and every possible target whenever he is out of the house. My point is that these bits of information are irrelevant to this case. It's ridiculously tenuous.
