Nicker on 22/7/2013 at 01:09
"Based on this, to me it's quite clear it was a case of self-defence. So why everyone consider Martin as a victim? I don't get it."
I'll have a go...
The only reason Zimmerman should have left his vehicle was if the vehicle itself was in peril or he saw Martin committing an act of violence against another person, who required assistance. He had no business approaching Martin. He was told specifically NOT to do so.
Since there was no legal compulsion for him to leave his vehicle and approach Martin, he willingly initiated the confrontation. Whatever his intentions or motives, Zimmerman put himself in peril without necessity.
As a result of his act, events (which, alas, now only have one witness) unfolded by which a person who did not immediately require shooting, was killed by an uninformed, unqualified, unsanctioned, self appointed policeman.
While in a wider sense, race is an aspect of this case it is not germane to the question of Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.
Did his acts result in an unnecessary death? If Z. had not left his vehicle and approached M., would M. still be alive? He would certainly have survived until the police arrived at the very least.
I think prosecution should have charged him with manslaughter because (as I understand it) they would only need to prove that Z.'s actions resulted in an unnecessary death, rather than prove intent.
If you pick a fight you can't claim self defense.
catbarf on 22/7/2013 at 02:13
Quote Posted by Nicker
He was told specifically NOT to do so.
Nitpick, the exact wording was 'we don't need you to do that', because 911 operators are required to say whatever is necessary to absolve themselves of legal responsibility if the person should be harmed, and a self-confident vigilate who knows this might decide to go ahead anyways. The court decided that the wording was vague enough to permit uncertainty.
Jason Moyer on 22/7/2013 at 02:25
Quote Posted by William Baric
Is this part of the American culture to never speak to anyone and to be afraid of everyone?
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWpeUTMUJ0c) Stranger Danger!
Quote:
I'm not sure what exactly are the effects of those drugs, but it sounds to me he was slow and not completely there.
ADHD medication = speed.
William Baric on 23/7/2013 at 06:21
Quote Posted by Nicker
The only reason Zimmerman should have left his vehicle was if the vehicle itself was in peril or he saw Martin committing an act of violence against another person, who required assistance. He had no business approaching Martin. He was told specifically NOT to do so.
That's again something I simply don't understand. If someone I don't know look at me from his car, even follow me for a while, and then get out of his vehicle, I won't consider this as an act of aggression. I will go to him, smile and simply ask if I can do something for him.
I find completely unreasonable to demand for a "legal compulsion" before anyone may approach someone else on the street. I am a bit antisocial, but I certainly wouldn't want to live in a society where I couldn't approach anyone unless allowed by some legal authority. To me, this looks like a vision from a dystopia like "1984". The image we have of the US is not that great, but I cannot imagine life in the US is that bad!
I guess this is what I wonder. Is social life in the US really that bad?
A bit off topic, I hope you won't take offence (and since I believe you live in Canada, you should not), but I'd like to correct two information you said. First, Zimmerman was told he did not need to follow Martin only after he left his vehicle, to which he replied "okay". Based on the sound of his breathing, he did stop running, and based on where the altercation took place, I think it's safe to assume he did more or less stayed at the same place and so did not approach Martin. It's Martin who approached Zimmerman.
The second incorrect information is about the number of witnesses. There was at least three eye witnesses. None saw who threw the first punch, but since Martin's body had no signs of an injury due to a punch, I don't think it matters.
Is this kind of paranoia common in the US?
nickie on 23/7/2013 at 08:06
Quote Posted by William Baric
That's again something I simply don't understand. If someone I don't know look at me from his car, even follow me for a while, and then get out of his vehicle, I won't consider this as an act of aggression. I will go to him, smile and simply ask if I can do something for him.
There have been occasions when someone has looked, stopped a car and got out. They were lost or looking for something or some other similar reason. Once, a vehicle slowed, followed briefly and then stopped. But he didn't get out. There was a good reason for that too. But I can't think of a good reason for someone to look, and follow, stop and then get out. I wouldn't take it as aggression but I'd think it was very suspicious.
robthom on 23/7/2013 at 15:40
There was no racism to the incident.
All the racism was on the part of a cruel and opportunistic media,
and the black people who the media have conditioned to cling to race cards instead of accepting responsibilities and living by realities.
Its sad that trayvon wont get a chance to outgrow the angry young gangsta mentality that brought him to his fate,
but its the media thats responsible for that and the hundreds of other dead black kids in every murikan inner city every day.
But dont forget that Zimmerman is also the victim.
He was trying to be a samaritan and protect his family and neighbors from crime,
and now he's been made public enemy #1 by the race baiting media for defending himself from assault.
murika is a sick place.
Its not the beacon of freedom and democracy that hollywood keeps telling you.
Queue on 23/7/2013 at 15:42
Well said.
