Muzman on 14/7/2013 at 11:57
All of that is highly contentious and we basically only have Zimmerman's word for. His head should be stove in and he's in a wheelchair from what he generally described before the trial.
Gryzemuis on 14/7/2013 at 12:52
Quote Posted by faetal
The real scary part is any situation where civilians pursue other people while carrying firearms and the intent to use them.
There will always be crazy people. Or criminal people. Bad things will always happen. Such is life. I can deal with that. As long as those are true incidents.
Half the country thinking it is normal to carry a firearm in the streets, playing vigilante, harassing kids, starting a fight, and then just shooting someone. And then point at the dead kid on the floor, and say "he started to slap me first". If you think that is just, there's something wrong.
Jason Moyer on 14/7/2013 at 13:22
Being punched in the face is not the same thing as being slapped around, although I suppose you could slap someone hard enough to cause loss of conscious and severe brain injury.
This if kind of a non-sequitor I guess, but part of me wonders what the general reaction to this case would have been if Zimmerman were a woman.
demagogue on 14/7/2013 at 13:26
Quote Posted by Renzatic
It kinda does, because self defense assumes no wrongdoing on your part.
To be precise, and this is kind of legal hair splitting, justification defenses (of which self defense is one) means you did a "wrong", but you had a compelling reason that justified it. It's opposed to excuse defenses where the defendant didn't or even couldn't actually do a wrong at all, such as incapacity.
But of course the natural way most people think is that if you act in self defense you're not really doing something wrong all things considered, which is fair.
I still think it's worth distinguishing between what's a justification and what's an excuse. An excuse means you really didn't do anything wrong; a justification means you were into shady business but something about the circumstances gave you a reason to do it we all accept as a justification. There's a slight difference there.
Unfortunately it's been a while since crim law or I'd go into more detail on self defense and some of the wrinkles as they played out here. I might still do it after I read more on it.
Dia on 14/7/2013 at 14:12
Wish I could say 'Good morning', but it's not. Lots of broken windows, car tires slashed, and property damage in my neighborhood this morning, including bullet holes in the outside wall of the house down at the corner of my street. I feel sorry for the elderly couple who live in that house; the wife is sooo sweet (she welcomed me to the neighborhood with homemade cookies when I moved in) and now she's standing out on her front porch crying. One of my tires is flat, but I don't know if it was actually slashed last night or not (yet) - my next-door neighbor has offered to change it for me. At one point around midnight Xander was going berserk, barking his damn-fool head off and running from window to window (all the blinds were securely down, btw). Some idiot hung a Caucasian-looking effigy from someone's tree two streets over with a sign that reads 'witie', but the owners took it down immediately, claiming they weren't the ones who put it up in the first place. The streets are relatively quiet right now; hopefully the rebel-rousers are someplace sleeping it off and last night is as bad as it's gonna get. Lots of police cars cruising around for an early Sunday morning though. Glad they were on the ball last night. It could've been worse.
MensaLaureate on 14/7/2013 at 14:23
Martin was a Thug and got what he deserved.
Renzatic on 14/7/2013 at 14:51
Right. I should've said reasonable justification, because you are breaking the letter of the law in a self defense case, but you have a compelling reason for doing so.
Though there are some questions I'd want to ask, and since you brought it up...
Quote Posted by demagogue
Unfortunately it's been a while since crim law or I'd go into more detail on self defense and some of the wrinkles as they played out here. I might still do it after I read more on it.
...what exactly is the legal line between Murder 2 and Manslaughter? I think I know what it is in theory. Murder 2 isn't premeditated, but assumes malicious intent on your part in someone's death. To me, this would include crimes of passion, like walking in on a guy banging your wife, and you decided to shoot him point blank with a shotgun, or accidentally killing someone because you got a little too carried away while beating the crap out of them.
Manslaughter assumes you were acting in a reckless or irresponsible manner that resulted in someone's death. Like involuntary manslaughter would be killing someone while driving drunk, and voluntary manslaughter would be one of the situations I described above, where your intentions weren't to kill someone, but you put yourself into a situation where you felt you had to to save your own life.
Thing is, some cases I'd think would be Murder 2 are classified as Murder 1 in court, and issues like crimes of passion are usually considered manslaughter.
I know the definition varies between states, but there must be something I'm missing here?
Also, Dia. I'm glad you're okay, but damn...where the hell do you live?
PigLick on 14/7/2013 at 14:53
Jesus christ Dia, what sort of neighbourhood do you live in? Sounds pretty scary.
Dia on 14/7/2013 at 15:19
As I said before, it's a multi-racial city suburb, and while it's usually quite peaceful, last night's news of Zimmerman's acquittal seems to have brought out the worst in some people around here. I have a feeling alcohol fueled that fire, as there are about four taverns within walking distance of each other a few streets over and from what a neighbor told me, all four were packed to the rafters last night.
I'm glad I decided on a Newfie after my beloved Saijiro died last year; Xander's bark makes him sound like a giant dog-from-hell and I firmly believe his barking acted as a deterrent for some of the scoundrels out to cause trouble in the area last night. Little do they know what a big wuss he really is. ;)
Great. My neighbor just changed my flat tire & told me the original was indeed slashed (so were two tires on his wife's van). Time to start parking in the garage, I guess. Pisses me off since I've never offended anyone around here and have tried my best to be a good neighbor. All total: three of my neighbors on this street have the same issue with slashed tires this morning. Some people's kids, I'll tell ya what. I think this would be a good day to visit my sister who lives in a rural area in the next county over.
henke on 14/7/2013 at 16:17
Damn that sounds horrible, Dia. Glad you're ok.
