dj_ivocha on 12/6/2009 at 01:56
Quote Posted by DDL
What I'm saying is that KILLING != MURDER.
And a lot of games feature various other forms of killing, rather than murder.
On the other hand, RAPE == RAPE, any way you cut it.
Sure, it's virtual, but one is illegal if made "not virtual", and the other, not necessarily so.
Now you are just nitpicking - ok, let's exclude games where you kill as a soldier or a cop that has no other choice or whatever. That still leaves the majority of all games that have killing in them.
So should GTA, Driver, Manhunt, to name a few, be banned also?
nicked on 12/6/2009 at 07:51
Quote Posted by DDL
What I'm saying is that KILLING != MURDER.
And a lot of games feature various other forms of killing, rather than murder.
On the other hand, RAPE == RAPE, any way you cut it.
Sure, it's virtual, but one is illegal if made "not virtual", and the other, not necessarily so.
I think the main difference is the psychological reasons for playing. You can play a game where you kill people, for the challenge of a firefight, the thrill of battle, the mental stimulation provided by outwitting an enemy etc. I doubt there are many people who play violent video games solely because they have an unquenchable bloodlust, and if they do, they've got bigger problems than computer games.
Whereas, someone who plays a rape simulator is actively getting off on it. Who would play a rape simulator for the gameplay, for the challenge?
june gloom on 12/6/2009 at 08:03
Keep in mind also that this is Japan we're talking about. They're... much weirder about sex than we are. They invented air sex for God's sake. By which, I don't mean it was just a bunch of bored guys without girlfriends (which they were) that's the notable thing- I mean ffs that's anywhere- but the fact that it turned into an international phenomenon as a form of performance art. Or the fact that they basically invented the concept of tentacle rape- almost 200 years ago.
Japan.
Koki on 12/6/2009 at 08:06
Quote Posted by nicked
Whereas, someone who plays a rape simulator is actively getting off on it.
Yes. Do you really have a problem with that? 'cause you know, I could hop on Google and look up "BDSM" and get something very, very similiar.
june gloom on 12/6/2009 at 08:10
BDSM is usually very carefully consensual, though. Though maybe that's your point.
nicked on 12/6/2009 at 12:41
The point is that people would play a rape game in order to get as close as possible to experiencing the real thing - you actually have to be turned on by the idea of rape to get much out of the game.
One doesn't play a first person shooter in order to experience murder and one doesn't have to enjoy the idea of killing people to enjoy a violent game.
With that in mind, it seems to me that a higher percentage of players of a rape game would allow it to influence them into potentially trying it in real life than with violent games, because you'd need to have some issues to be playing the rape game in the first place.
Thirith on 12/6/2009 at 13:07
Quote Posted by nicked
The point is that people would play a rape game in order to get as close as possible to experiencing the real thing - you actually have to be turned on by the idea of rape to get much out of the game.
One doesn't play a first person shooter in order to experience murder and one doesn't have to enjoy the idea of killing people to enjoy a violent game.
With that in mind, it seems to me that a higher percentage of players of a rape game would allow it to influence them into potentially trying it in real life than with violent games, because you'd need to have some issues to be playing the rape game in the first place.
While I
feel similarly to you, I don't think it makes for a particularly strong argument. You basically just claim that while people playing shooters do it for the gameplay, whereas people playing rape games do it for the rape. Do you have any more than a gut feeling to support this? Especially since, possibly even more so than with a shooter (where you've at least got the hand-eye coordination thing), the player's actual interaction in a rape game is bound to be vastly different from what an actual rape is like. Added to which, rape as a sexual fantasy seems to be much more common than one might think at first. Why would a rape game automatically be closer to real rape than to rape fantasies?
Don't get me wrong: I abhor the whole idea of rape games. I do think, though, that any argument about whether they should be banned or not should be based as much as possible on rational arguments rather than on what may feel right.
Angel Dust on 12/6/2009 at 14:05
I completely agree, Thirith. I don't think I play shooters because I enjoy the idea of killing people but I know there will be a large amount of people think anyone who plays these games does and who find the idea of those games as abhorrent as I find the idea of rape games.
Yakoob on 12/6/2009 at 16:11
Thirith already covered it but, nicked, what you are saying is basically the whole argument angry politicians and parents use against violent video games. Just think about that.
EvaUnit02 on 12/6/2009 at 16:57
If you've read any of the reviews of rape games on Somethingawful.com, you'd get the idea that a lot of "rape fiction" are very much removed from reality. This definitely does not justify their existence, but arguing "that people would play a rape game in order to get as close as possible to experiencing the real thing" is pretty irrational.
The most common modus operandi of rape fantasies in Japanese adult fiction, be it film, manga or game operate on the principal that all women are carnal creatures who desire nothing more than anything to be toys for a man's pleasure, (it's a totally revolting concept). (In the 60's/70's there was a cottage industry Live-Action Exploitation films in Japan, many often produced by major studios like Toho. Straight up rape was definitely one of the known sub-genres.)
The protagonists in these stories are commonly horrible individual who's aim to to "break" his targets, ie possibly exploiting the character's nature to utterly destroy them. This may involve black mail, humiliation, exploiting the target's guilt or sympathies towards the protagonist, etc.
Unlike in Western culture, villains without any redeeming qualities are quite common in Japanese fiction.
The less common archetype in rape stories revolve a protagonist who may not exactly be evil/suffering from "temporary insanity" (or be under otherworldly influence) and is often redeemed at the end of story. These stories are so entirely submerged in fantasy, that there's no way in hell that anyone would believe it were possible.
The victim may be totally willing to do whatever the protagonist wants since "she" has an unwavering intense love for the guy, or this might be way to "heal" his present condition. The story keeps gradually escalating in extremeness until one outrageous situation totally crosses the line and protagonist snaps back to reality and realises all of the evil that he has caused. The girl forgives him and they live happily ever after.
EDIT: Jesus fucking Christ, I can't believe I just wrote such a TL;DR post defending and describing the vilest of Japanese adult fiction genre tropes. Fuck you Nicked and your ignorant ass views.
