Ghosting. Please clarify. - by Snapdragon
Snapdragon on 17/1/2006 at 03:31
I've played Thief 1, 2 and 3 many, many times. As a long time fan, some might be shocked to hear that I have never attempted the Thiefy trial of manhood...
Ghosting.
I've never really attempted it; I'm more of a methodical person and not discreet, and that means clearing the level (With my blackjack, of course) as much as possible to make access and retreat easy. Now, after completing T2X and Calendra's Legacy, I thought I would go back to 1, 2 and 3 and make an attempt to ghost the campaigns.
However, I'm not sure quite how it works, which leads me to my question. To ghost, must guards and NPCs NEVER break their patrols and other scripted sequences? Or are you able to at least throw objects to distract them, as long as they never "lock on" to you, as it were? Thanks for clarifying.
Holywhippet on 17/1/2006 at 04:51
Looking at the Ghosting rules there's a few things that confuse me. One of them is "all torches relit". AFAIK the only way to relight a torch is using a fire arrow. But the main reason for dousing a torch is to let you pass by unseen which means there is a guard nearby. Using a fire arrow attracts a lot of attention. I assume the "if the mission requires it" rule includes the torch you have to douse during the first mission of Thief 2?
Secondly, what about the security face at the start of the last mission in Thief 2? It's possible to dash to cover and avoid it going red but it will always go yellow. Is this also covered under "if the mission requires it"?
Finally, I seem to recall some of the loot in Thief 3 in the museum to be behind glass panels. It can't be stolen without breaking the glass which makes ghosting and max loot impossible.
Snapdragon on 17/1/2006 at 05:26
"Amendment #1 : Any mission requirement that demands that the player break one of the rules above is OK to complete." ;)
What I want to know is, what the heck is Banner Transmigration and Nudging?
theBlackman on 17/1/2006 at 05:45
Quote Posted by Holywhippet
Finally, I seem to recall some of the loot in Thief 3 in the museum to be behind glass panels. It can't be stolen without breaking the glass which makes ghosting and max loot impossible.
The rules in the link were made before T3 arrived. There has been a deal of discussion regarding the Ghosting rule for T3. A SEARCH in the T3 forum, or the THIEF SERIES in general will bring you links and posts to these.
Quote Posted by Snapdragon
What I want to know is, what the heck is Banner Transmigration and Nudging?
Banner Transmigration is a technique for "bending" Garrett THROUGH a banner without cutting it down. A SEARCH on the EIDOS forums should turn up a detailed account of methodology for this.
NUDGING is getting as close as you can behind an AI. When they shuffle thier feet, you MOVE FORWARD. Over time this will "Nudge" them forward and give you room to sneak behind them. To use the military definition BELLYBUTTON TO ASSHOLE. PRESS UP AND LEAN ON THEM. This is useful when the AI is only a foot or less from a wall or other object. You can move them enough to sneak behind them unseen.
Look at the collection of threads on (
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=2263) for some other techniques and info on "How 2..." ghost many of the missions in TDP/GOLD and TMA.
Nightwalker on 17/1/2006 at 14:25
Rule #6 . Doors re-shut, torches re-lit, keys returned, etc. are are not necessary unless you just want to....or the condition requires it to avoid a bust. As you can see, this is listed as not necessary and this is not something most ghosters would do, especially relighting torches, as that is noisy and there are very rarely fire arrows to do it anyway.
R Soul on 17/1/2006 at 15:42
Flares can be used to quietly relight torches.
Goldmoon Dawn on 17/1/2006 at 16:23
Quote Posted by Snapdragon
To ghost, must guards and NPCs NEVER break their patrols and other scripted sequences? Or are you able to at least throw objects to distract them, as long as they never "lock on" to you, as it were? Thanks for clarifying.
My interpretation of Ghosting is exactly that. As closely as possible, you must have "never been there", in the guards consciousness or otherwise.
:ebil:
EDIT ~ For me, I tried The Dark Project the first time in 1999. I first played it like a FPS. :) That lasted 2 minutes. From that moment forward, "Ghosting" was a natural intuitive style for me, being the "RPGer" I am. However; the first moments of Thief II and Ghosting ended for me. Thief II was the perfect hack-n-slash! :p
SortYa on 18/1/2006 at 02:56
I tend to have my own version of ghosting, when i ghost, as I am sure most people do. Ghosting to me is getting all loot (or all loot possible), not alerting any AI to the alert stage below full aggression (ie, in T3 if they take out their weapon its a bust, if they just wander over to investigate without taking out their weapon, its undesirable, but not a bust) and so forth.
I think some of the ghosting rules are a little extreme, although i realise that was the intention to an extent.
I guess to me, ghosting is finishing a mission without touching any of the inhabitants, and not having any of them able to identify Garrett by face or presence. They may know someone has been there and robbed the joint, but they have no idea it is Garrett, or any proof. Know what i mean?
oDDity on 19/1/2006 at 22:57
No matter what rules you impose for ghosting, the inhabitants will always know that someone has been there and robbed the joint - unless of course you don't steal anything, which might just make the whole thing rather pointless.
It makes some of those 'rules' niothing but pointless compulsive disorders, carried out by the sort of people who like to play with their eyes closed and one hand tied behind their back, because they've already played it 436 times and need to do something increasingly more ridiculous each time to keep their interest alive.
Don't interfere with anyone, don't alert any of the guards to level 2, and you've ghosted it, that's all.
