Mercury on 27/2/2007 at 04:56
Had a quick search but couldn't find any other threads for this, so apologies if I'm covering old ground. I'm currently in the middle of trying to ghost Thieves' Guild but I've run into a couple of problems. The first one is how on earth are you able to fit through west window of the guard station next to the roulette wheel in The Overlord's Folly? Several of the guides and walkthroughs mention it but I'm running into a brick wall trying it, quite literally ;), so was wondering if there was a specific trick to it.
The other main question is about Thom and the lady in the kitchen later on when you come to Donnal's quarters. Since he's looking straight at it so far I've had to blackjack Thom to get the house key from the bookshelf, likewise the lady at the counter when at Donnal's place if you want to get in without raising the alarm. Anyone know how you can get around these two without having to knock them out or are they ones that you just can't avoid, even when trying to ghost it? Thanks.
theBlackman on 27/2/2007 at 07:14
That window is tough. You need to moss the floor and the ledge to cut the noise down. Then you need to try (many times) the run, leap, crouch while in mid-air technique.
I've only been able to get in there through that window 3 or 4 times in all the hundreds of attempts.
You might try getting close to the window, Lean forward and Mantle up. But it don't always work.
Abysmal on 27/2/2007 at 07:19
This one's a fun one to ghost.
With the guard station, you can actually go through the door itself. Get as close as you can in the shadows (put out the nearby torches obviously) to frob it open, stand back and shoot a moss arrow on the ground, and make a running jump into the guard station. Nobody will see you and you'll be free to grab everything on the shelves.
Regarding the kitchen lady, this one's tougher but doable. Your aim is the adjacent little alcove room on the other side of the kitchen where the closets are; forget the nearby door. Put out the torch in the target room to cover it in darkness, and shoot a moss arrow or two into that room. Now stay on the floor, down a speed potion, and make a running leap of faith into the room. With any luck, the lady should remain unalerted.
Regarding Thom, the only way I've ever found is to nudge him into a corner (keep pushing against his back while he shifts in his standing position). Since doing this is completely stupid and ruins any kind of believability, just save yourself the trouble and blackjack him. Put him to bed, feel a little remorse, but it has to be done.
For extra thrills, try ghosting the entire mission in a single play, no saving or loading. I've managed to do it a few times. :D
klatremus on 1/3/2007 at 07:53
Hey Mercury, I think I have what you're looking for! :D
Check out (
http://home.online.no/~ajnilsen/hn/hn.htm) my Thief Gold walkthrough site. It only goes to mission 9 so far, but Thieves' Guild I have done. It is a ghost/supreme walkthrough and should cover every little piece of that mission.
In short, I ghosted the entire gambling den free of alerts except for one water arrow dousing the torch in the southwest area. The gamblers there gave a mumble. To get the coin stacks in the northwest I also had to settle for some 1st alerts. I used a crate from the restaurant to get through those windows, this is not against ghosting rules. Thinking about it, the only things of interest from the west side are water arrows, a healing potion and a key, so not strictly necessary for your ghost run.
Thom can be ghosted without nudging. Put out the fire, then hop onto the bed (can be done unalerted with stacked objects). From the end of the bookshelf you can lean over and grab the key.
The kitchen lady can be snuck past with a 1st alert only. Hop onto the kitchen counter and follow it around. You can wait in the corner by the exit for the guard to pass, then drop down and exit.
These areas are all properly covered in my guide.
Good Luck!! :thumb:
dlw6 on 5/3/2007 at 12:40
Quote Posted by Abysmal
put out the nearby torches obviously
At which point you are no longer ghosting.
But hey, I didn't even like that level...stupid mazes.
Don
Abysmal on 5/3/2007 at 13:41
At which point you're just following stupid rules that some random guy on the Internet made up. But hey, if you want to punish yourself...
Everyone can have their own interpretation. To me it's all about no enemy contact and not being seen or heard, that's it. That's the actual fun part; the rest is punishment. Your tools aren't dead weight, they're meant to be used. Not leaving a trace is a bit hard considering all the loot you're so obviously stealing. I even recall in "official" ghosting rules (whatever that means) that you're not allowed to drink potions. How in the world does drinking a potion constitute a "bust"? Did someone hear you gulp?
I even contest that getting all of the loot is necessary, considering your objectives don't call for it, and again has nothing to do with the act of ghosting at all. No, these are just ironclad, pedantic rules that people on the Internet make up and obsessively follow when they are bored.
Cronkhite on 6/3/2007 at 02:02
Quote:
How in the world does drinking a potion constitute a "bust"? Did someone hear you gulp?
I agree that is a ridiculous, illogical rule. It has nothing to do with ghosting. I would say, however, that putting out torches is environmental manipulation, and thus arguably constitutes a break in ghosting. I define ghosting as beating a level while creating a minimum of environmental disturbances (which necessarily allows for the environmental disturbance of theft observance, unless the item can be skipped and the level can still be beaten). There's no doubt, in my mind, that a string of 3 or 4 torches being doused, or a chandelier going out, would create a disturbance to humans observing. Yet would 1 torch going out in the course of a night be that odd? I don't think so.
I always thought the whole concept of the water arrow made their use in ghosting that much more difficult to justify. What happens to the shaft? Wouldn't humans be able to see that the light source was doused with water, which would preclude air and other explanations? There should have been another, more covert option for putting out torches, which would make doing so more feasible in a secretive mission.
It would have been extremely interesting to have had a running detection meter (perhaps on a 10-20 point scale) that took into account suspicious occurences throughout a mission. For instance, a guard's disappearance after a ~10 minute span would add 2 points to the meter. 1 torch going out wouldn't add anything, but each torch within proximity thereafter going out would add 1 point. A knockout would add 2 points (let's face it, the clattering swords and groans would pose a detection risk to surrounding beings capable of hearing). Using a mine or explosive devices would necessarily either max the meter out (how do you explain away an explosive mine going off? You can't) or add a significant amount of detection points to the meter. If this were to be perfected, the detection points would fluctuate according to the circumstances. For example, putting out a 2nd torch obviously shouldn't add a point to the detection meter if no one is patrolling close enough to observe the area.
The ramifications of a high detection meter would be: 1. an increase in observation ability of the guards (due to suspicion) 2. increased damage and HP of AI (due to alertness) 3. increased amount of guards (due to notification of a problem or suspicious happenings). If all of these 3 changes occurred, it would be difficult to ignore the detection meter as just a pointless indicator of one's clumsiness.
I think that would have made the ghosting concept much more realistic and
valid. Currently it's just a philosophy, when it should have been a necessity in at least a majority of the Thief missions.
Gvozdika on 8/3/2007 at 09:19
Quote Posted by Abysmal
Everyone can have their own interpretation.
To me its all about not being seen (discoveries in T3).
- A poltergeist is a ghost as well. So why not throw stuff at people thus driving them nuts.
- Its not before you really upset the ape-beasts that they utter their "ghosts!" which perfectly makes sense.
- As long as youre not seen youre not tangible as a human being while performing human-like actions which is my definition of a ghost.
