massimilianogoi on 13/12/2009 at 19:47
Yes, talibanish in the meaning of fanatic and illogical observations of some rule,that can be avoided by normal reasoning.
I mean: if you throw an object at the other side ofthe room to attract there the NPCto me is ghosting the same,
because that object wouldn't implie directly that someone is in that room, while that rules doesn't permits this.
Yes, maybe there should be Ghosting and ghosting. In facts I've come at the pagan sanctuary and with that official rules I neither could come there ghosting, and I proceed throwing objects to distract AIs and at the first place of the maps i've even thrown some noisemager arrows to make fighting those two thugs and the pagans
that occuped the corridors, so that I had the way freed. that't the only ghosting possibility there, since there are the lighting crystal, and the willow-o-wisps
smithpd on 13/12/2009 at 21:36
Please stop the Taliban crap. The distinguishing point of the Taliban is that they want everyone to abide by their rules and to be under their control. Executions, floggings, and all that. That is the exact opposite of the way I and every ghoster I know thinks. We don't care a whit how you play. You can slash banners, make "necessary" alerts, kill spiders, etc., to your hearts content. I do that myself. I just personally object to your using a term for what you do, ghosting, that is inaccurate and that waters down a 10 year old tradition.
Using G and g is just plain stupid. Of course, you know that already.
Hexameron on 13/12/2009 at 21:42
Quote Posted by massimilianogoi
I mean: if you throw an object at the other side ofthe room to attract there the NPCto me is ghosting the same,
because that object wouldn't implie directly that someone is in that room, while that rules doesn't permits this.
If you yourself are standing in your kitchen and a plate goes flying through the air and hits the wall, wouldn't your first thought be that someone is in the room? Maybe not if your house is brimming with intense poltergeist activity.
Quote:
In facts I've come at the pagan sanctuary and with that official rules I neither could come there ghosting, and I proceed throwing objects to distract AIs and at the first place of the maps i've even thrown some noisemager arrows to make fighting those two thugs and the pagans
that occuped the corridors, so that I had the way freed. that't the only ghosting possibility there, since there are the lighting crystal, and the willow-o-wisps
I didn't have too much trouble ghosting that area. The thugs at the beginning can be ghosted. I know the melees between the thugs and pagans can have random outcomes, so your game experience may be different from mine. While it's a little tricky with those wisps lighting up the passageways, it's certainly possible to ghost these caves. If I recall, I had more difficulty in the sewers and the actual pagan sanctuary.
massimilianogoi on 13/12/2009 at 21:54
No difficulties in the sewers, just in that enlightened initial corridors.
Tannar on 14/12/2009 at 02:39
I have to add my concern to Peter's (and Hexameron's). I would hate to see the tradition of ghosting in this game get mangled in this way. There are very few real stealth games available and Thief is (imho) the best. I think this is one of the things that keeps us all here, our love for stealthy game play. Ghosting is the ultimate form of stealth in which your presense is never even suspected. The rules that have been developed over the years are there for a reason and they are there for those people who truly want to try their hand at this challenging style of gameplay.
By calling what you are doing "ghosting" you are inviting confusion. Is what you are doing being stealthy? Yes, for the most part. But is it ghosting? No. As Peter mentions, there is a 10 year old (or more) tradition of true ghosting in this community. Why would you want to detract from that? For 10 years ghosters have been making ghost reports on their ghosting efforts. It might clarify things a bit if you were to (
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=91381) read some of them and see what it really is all about.
It would not be possible for the ghosters in this community to compare their attempts in any meaningful way if there weren't a set of specific rules that every ghoster followed. If it weren't for the rules, it would be like comparing apples and oranges. If one person is using noisemaker arrows or flashbombs or whatever and another is not, is this an accurate comparison? No. Moreover, someone could report that they successfully ghosted a mission but not mention that they didn't follow the rules. Others would then think that the mission was ghostable when perhaps it isn't.
The ghosters in this community have a long history of sharing their accompishments and failures with one another. Many of them have put in an enormous amount of time and effort to create, clarify and contribute to this style of gameplay. By calling what you are doing "ghosting" you are, in a way, detracting from everything that past and present ghosters have accomplished. And what they have accomplished and contributed is very valuable.
You are free to do what you like, of course, but I hope you will at least consider what I'm trying to say here. Play the game any way you like. Enjoy it, talk about it. But please don't deminish what so many ghosters have contributed to over the years.
massimilianogoi on 14/12/2009 at 06:12
Hmmm... I see you are registered in 2008... how can you know for 10 years the forum? Just curiosity...
Tannar on 14/12/2009 at 06:45
I have read most of the ghosting reports starting with the originals and I have read many of the discussions about ghosting both here at TTLG and on the Eidos forum.
Namdrol on 14/12/2009 at 09:21
Quote Posted by massimilianogoi
Hmmm... I see you are registered in 2008... how can you know for 10 years the forum? Just curiosity...
Massi, if anyone said this to you, you would go mental and start throwing your toys out of the pram.
Not nice mate.
Registering at TTLG has nothing to do with playing Thief.
And not that this has anything to do with it, have you any idea how hard Tannar works for the community?
Dussander on 14/12/2009 at 09:54
My style of ghosting closely follows the official rules barring one - but I don't worry about damaging banners. I have an objection to counting that as a ghosting rule. I go around stealing a bunch of stuff and use contraptions and devices without being able to reset them to default - why should I worry about damaging a banner, which should be liftable in the first place?
There seems to be a lot of clashing in this thread. Why not try and talk to each other with a little more respect?
ffox on 14/12/2009 at 11:32
I sympathise with the ghosters who play by the strict rules and agree that there is a historical precedent for referring to that style as "ghosting".
Times change though, as does the widely accepted meaning of certain words. Nowadays the vast majority use "ghosting" to mean a generic playing style which is not as rigid, and nothing is going to change that. I'm sorry if that unwelcome fact annoys the traditionalists but I'm afraid it's a fait accompli, as indicated by many posts in this thread (eg Dussander's above) and elsewhere. Lengthy arguments are not going to change the status quo. Times have changed.
In view of the above I suggested renaming the official rules style to avoid confusion with a loosely-defined style. (Renaming the majority usage would not be widely accepted.) I didn't expect my suggestion to put the cat among the pigeons. Please accept my apologies for ruffling some of your feathers.
