God.. they had it all in their hands and spoiled it completely...

~s:a:n:i:t:y~ on 7/6/2006 at 12:15

Quote Posted by Mahoney

Cool. I know Thief is Thief and Zelda is Zelda, but what makes a game interesting is the ability to explore, finding different routes to a goal, or sidetrack and finding gold, items etc to loot.

The most important thing here is not to try too hard - like in TES4 Oblivion the spaces beween matters are too big to my opinion.:)

Mahoney on 7/6/2006 at 12:22

Quote Posted by ~s:a:n:i:t:y~

The most important thing here is not to try too hard - like in TES4 Oblivion the spaces beween matters are too big to my opinion.:)

It's good to get sidetracked and just explore, in between missions or even during a mission, unless it's vital to complete it. One thing Thief has compared to SC is that the levels allow more route taking, whereas however hard SC games have tried they're still linear as hell.

~s:a:n:i:t:y~ on 7/6/2006 at 12:33

Quote Posted by Mahoney

It's good to get sidetracked and just explore, in between missions or even during a mission...

More directions to follow - yes!
Further distances - please no! Isn't it boring? Especially when there's nothing happening along the way. I do feel bored when that happens in TES... You just run and run and run, and the worst thing you meet on the way is some animal... Or maybe it irritates me just because it takes health while running... A pointless wasting of powers.... If neither power decreased during those trips - long distances would do I guess...

Mahoney on 7/6/2006 at 12:36

Quote Posted by ~s:a:n:i:t:y~

Oh, I see what you're getting at now. Yes you're right, when an actual mission is taking place, I agree. But when you can't be bothered or in between missions, objectives etc a lot of places to explore really is cool and extends a game a lot. Even after completeing the main quest. Also Garrett is such a class character to use it just seems a waste.

vurt on 7/6/2006 at 12:43

Quote Posted by Morrgan

Well, you're arguing with the wrong person when it comes to graphics and such, because I don't have a problem with them. I do think stiff animations is a problem, because they break immersion and make it clear this is just a game (a BIG issue for me, which also happens due to the loading zones all over the place). There something that's just so off about the way the AI move. I never had that happen with Thief 1 & 2.

Are there more loading zones in TDS really? I didnt think there were that many, far less than eg. HL2 and they load very quick, just a few secs (not like HL2 which take 40 secs!), i also like that you can SEE the loading zones so it's never a "surprise load" like many other games inlucing the old thief games i believe. But yeah no loading zones would've been really good, unfortunalty it is extremely rare.

Quote:

Body awareness is also an annoyance. Well ok, I'll admit my ignorance when it comes to terminology here, I might be calling it by the wrong word. Anyways, what I mean is that Garrett moves in odd ways in 1st person, in ways I can't predict. Sometimes when I press the key to move forward after looking around, Garrett moves to the side at first, occasionally into light where he's noticed. This due to his body being turned some way I couldn't see from 1st person view. Yay, reload. Makes trying to explore a real chore, as Garrett tends to fall off ledges and such because of this.

Also, Garrett can get stuck on the strangest things, usually something so tiny it shouldn't be an issue in the first place. A cup on the floor? Suddenly Garrett can't move for a while and then there's a big CLANGGGG when that little thing is nudged and a guard notices. Yay, reload again.

One last thing is how you're showered with gold and equipment to the point where choosing your equipment is no longer something to ponder carefully. It just gets too easy when you have a ton of all arrows for most of the game and takes away that aspect of tension. As a result I just try not to use any equipment, which is hardly what the gameplay should be. :p

I've never had a problem with the controls or being stuck, i've played it trough 2 times, but i've always modded and edited the game. But yeah it's not very hard to find equipment, i agree it should've been toned down a bit, havent really thought about it until now so i cant say it bothered me, but i think you're right.

New Horizon on 7/6/2006 at 12:45

Quote Posted by ~s:a:n:i:t:y~

There is such a thing as too big, but the first two thief games had level sizes that were just the right size, in my opinion. In TDS, you get a level around 1/3 the size of lord baffords and are then hit with a load zone. Although, we will see somewhat larger missions now that people are making FM's with the editor....but nothing of classic Thief scale.

Quote Posted by vurt

The original Thief games didn't have load zones, the game was able to handle huge level sizes....that were often more than double...or even triple what TDS is capable of. That's why people are upset with TDS and the tiny split levels, they disrupt the flow of the level and take you out of the gameworld...wouldn't be so bad if the level sections were double their current size however.

Mahoney on 7/6/2006 at 12:48

Vurt, I think Halo and Halo 2 have the ideal loading mechanism which you hardly notice save a brief pause from area to area of about 2 or 3 secs.

~s:a:n:i:t:y~ on 7/6/2006 at 12:58

Quote Posted by Mahoney

Vurt, I think Halo and Halo 2 have the ideal loading mechanism which you hardly notice save a brief pause from area to area of about 2 or 3 secs.

Will that change with the bigger area?
Oblivion areas load very slowly - about 5 secs and then slows for a couple more seconds on my computer....:erm:

Mahoney on 7/6/2006 at 13:04

Quote Posted by ~s:a:n:i:t:y~

Will that change with the bigger area?
Oblivion areas load very slowly - about 5 secs and then slows for a couple more seconds on my computer....:erm:

Really? I had it on my 360 and it does stutter slightly outside and the new areas e.g. going from the ouside in vice-versa does load but not too long. Then again I used to have to wait minutes for the old tapes to load up for the C64. Halo loads and caches while you play so you have large areas constantly in play. The thing is Oblivion uses speedtree, Havok physics etc aswell as more variables that it uses in it then Halo so it's working the machine more often.

vurt on 7/6/2006 at 13:04

Quote Posted by New Horizon

The original Thief games didn't have load zones, the game was able to handle huge level sizes. That's why people are upset with TDS and the tiny split levels.

Ok, i've forgotten about that it seems. I really hope there will be a new Thief using UnrealEngine3 with no loading times.

This is a very good point, gameplay is clearly improved by not breaking the immersion with loading zones.