God.. they had it all in their hands and spoiled it completely... - by Vincent_21
Renault on 8/6/2006 at 14:43
Quote Posted by vurt
TDS was cleary a step in the right direction, more RPG'ish.
I think it was right about here that I realize we will never agree on anything. Thief is not Oblivion. Love them both, but they two very different games with very different mindsets. If you believe TDS was a step in the right direction, you are in a definitley in the minority on these boards.
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Many T1-T2 levels is just following a certain route without alternatives
I challenge you to name one level from either T1/T2 where you don't have some kind of alternate route.
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and without the choice if you want to kill someone or sneak past, so it really offers less gameplay wise.
Again, you completelly miss the point of Thief. Thief is a sneaking game. You are a thief, not a murderer. If you just wipe everyone out, it's not Thief, it's Quake. LGS was trying to invent a new style of gameplay. One that does not include an "easy way out" by just killing all your opponents.
ZylonBane on 8/6/2006 at 15:26
Quote Posted by Brother Renault
Thief is a sneaking game. You are a thief, not a murderer.
But the funny thing is, vurt's wrong again-- slaughtering everyone is in fact a viable gameplay style in classic Thief. It's not easy, but it can certainly be done.
Mahoney on 8/6/2006 at 15:43
It's easier in the Third person. I've run around guards in a sort of Benny Hill manner and killed them. More difficult in the FP.
RavynousHunter on 8/6/2006 at 16:33
Quote Posted by dethtoll
i believe "splatterpunk" is the term for it. it's a phase; it'll go away after a few years. and you're forgetting the psych-horror of movies like silent hill or the ring.
::mumbles a little hymn to self::
... psych horrors of Silent Hill or the Ring? .. apparently youve never seen Lost Highway, or In The Mouth Of Madness, THATS psych-horror, the Ring is just kinda... creepy, but i love Paranoia Agent! :rolleyes: I think Thief has plenty of creepy or scared-so-bad-i-almost-shit-my-pants moments, like when your trying reeeeeaaal hard to ghost into a mansion, and a bloody guard jumps behind you, or a spider or zombie, and starts whacking away at your spine. of course, i tune nearly everything out when im playing thief, so most of my senses are attuned to the game, except smell, which comes in handy when someones brought home some pizza. I prefer the hammer haunts for creepiness, i extracted all of thier sounds on my cousins comp and am planning to do a little horror skit with em. Well, some people need to go get an ice cream sandwich. RavynousHunter needs to go get an ice cream sandwich. :thumb:
Goldmoon Dawn on 8/6/2006 at 17:19
Quote Posted by Solabusca
It's really a sad, sad thing to watch the poor boy slide further into dementia.
.j.
Not dementia.
More like fanaticism!
:)
I suppose I *could* cool it for a minute, but in a Thread about Deadly sucking, or "what is better, TI or TIII", you bet I'm gonna be there...
Hmmm....
Those seem to be the only Threads I post in!
MorbusG on 8/6/2006 at 17:58
^I wonder what post you're quoting there, hmm?
Raven on 9/6/2006 at 00:11
I couldn't be bothered to read page 4 of 4 - what did I miss? If vurt has heard all these arugments before, and everyone else acknowledges that thief 3 sits somewhere between highlander 2 and superman 4 in the list of grand cock ups why are people even continuing this discussion? presumably it has been played out before.
I also want to say that at first I thought that vince bloke was going to try and sell us something... it reads like he had only ever watched the cutscenes of the first two games, my guess was that he was going to try and ingraciate himself with the community and then start pimping something... it looks like everyone scared him away with good old fashioned T:DS sux banter... to which i can only comment that i got bored of thief 3 bashing about a month before it came out, I knew it was going to be rubbish and so had low expectations waiting to be surprised.
My god the lost oppertunity but a new unreal engine game based in the "city" TES 4 style would be amazing... if someone could buy the IP ofcourse, and then be gracious enough to pretend that thief ds never happened canonically (or at least set it after thief 2 but before thief 3)
ercles on 9/6/2006 at 01:02
Quote Posted by Brother Renault
I challenge you to name one level from either T1/T2 where you don't have some kind of alternate route.
I'm not entirely sure, but aren't you pretty much stuck with one path in Trail of Blood, obviously except for the clearings where you can go left or right around a specific tree, but the game pretty much guides you down one route, no?
New Horizon on 9/6/2006 at 01:27
Quote Posted by ercles
Quote Posted by Brother Renault]I challenge you to name one level from either T1/T2 where you don't have some kind of alternate route.QUOTE
I'm not entirely sure, but aren't you pretty much stuck with one path in Trail of Blood, obviously except for the clearings where you can go left or right around a specific tree, but the game pretty much guides you down one route, no?
Yes, because you're supposed to follow the trail of blood to find the guy...time is of the essence...he's bleeding to death. The thing that is totally being missed is that these two were 'concept' missions, they went against the standard flow. Why? Probably due in part to LGS wanting to experiment and listening to what the fans were talking about. I'm sure fans had said...hey, a timed mission would be interesting. Linearity was not the norm as it was in TDS. I'm sure the designers could have dazzled us with some extreme non-linearity in TDS, if only the technology hadn't dictated such miniscule level sizes. The designers just had nowhere to turn...except to make point A to point B journeys.
ercles on 9/6/2006 at 02:33
I honestly don't see how a lot of the missions in the older games are any less linear than something like the museum mission at the end of TDS
Look at missions like Framed, Blackmail, and First City Trust Bank. They all have specific places that you had to go to to complete your objectives, and many ways of getting there, just like Still Life with Blackjack. As for multiple entry points, look at Overlook Mansion, which is the same idea. I also found First City Trust Bank to be kind of linear because there was often only one way that you could get somewhere, especially if you were trying to avoid detection.
Don't get me wrong about Trail of Blood, I loved it. But was it actually timed, I assumed that the outcome was always the same, no matter how fast you did it. And if you want alternate routes in TDS, go for the thieves highway ;)
