God.. they had it all in their hands and spoiled it completely... - by Vincent_21
Mahoney on 6/6/2006 at 11:48
I like T DS alot too. I hope though they do a remix style thing with updated graphics of all the Thief games, so you have the whole of Gazza's story. Also the option of 3rd person too like in DS.
~s:a:n:i:t:y~ on 6/6/2006 at 11:53
Quote Posted by Mahoney
Also the option of 3rd person too like in DS.
True.
I use 1st person view. But at times I so much miss my own look!:)
And there's no mirrors:p
Mahoney on 6/6/2006 at 11:58
:cheeky:
Why not put a piccie of yourself up then?
But I like seeing Garrett plying his trade. He's just so cool.
New Horizon on 6/6/2006 at 12:49
Quote Posted by vurt
Not only that, many people didnt even want to give it a chance after the disasterous Deus Ex 2, it gave them predjudice opnions about the engine and the game (and i bet the so-called "hardcore fans" werent to happy that it was developed by Ion Storm either). I've yet to see any real arguments why it sucked, it's usualy "it didnt have rope arrows it ruined the whole game!" or "the controls were far too difficult for my fragile little mind" :cheeky:
That's not true at all. I was a moderator on the Ion Storm forums and hardcore fans were very happy about Ion Storm developing the new Thief title, in fact, we were all very supportive...even after the initial release. We praised them for their dedication and willingness to chat with us on the forums...it's not the grim picture of bloodthirsty morons that you seem to portray. We also had the opportunity to tell them what we felt they did wrong, but overall...it was kind.
People were fairly positive over on the Ion Forums after the release. I was very happy to be playing the third game and although we were extremely unhappy with a lot of the unnecessary changes, we sucked it up and just modified the hud and made whatever changes we could in those early days...to bring back some of the original Thief feel. I think what finally broke the camels back, is when we started to notice that there was something completely off with the difficulty settings and it was pretty obvious at that point just how rushed the game was, because this bug would have been caught if any amount of real testing was done. It took quite a bit of persuading to convince the powers that be the bug even existed. In addition to that bug, fans submitted some other minor tweaks to further polish the game, but when the patch came, (with nothing more than a "here you go"), all it addressed was the difficulty bug..zippo, that was it. Frustration levels rose.
We then knew that TDS, was abandonware.
Over the time since TDS was released, little bits of information have leaked out and we know that all was not well during development. I personally feel that unhealthy development atmosphere is reflected in the game we now have. I feel little of the joy and magic that went into Thief 1 and 2.
It's the sum of all the problems that makes TDS 'only' a good game...instead of a great game...not the single things...like missing rope arrows, no swimming, poor controls. For that matter, your trivialization of the poor control scheme is quite puzzling...since it has even been addressed by the developers themselves as a poor choice on their part.
~s:a:n:i:t:y~ on 6/6/2006 at 13:26
Quote Posted by New Horizon
It's the sum of all the problems that makes TDS 'only' a good game...instead of a great game...
Thanks to that post I finally understand why I consider TDS a great game - I never took part in any discussions and problem fixing, or experienced any problems with the game. I've been through TG and TDP, but they didn't leave a slightest trace in my heart, which gives me a right to think of it as of differences of opinions and not as of T1/T2 predominance.
It's a matter of habit - controls, graphics, etc...
Unlike T1 and T2 fans, I was feeling the lack of magic in both games, and that was why I hurried to the end so much and the idea to replay T1 or T2 had never even been close to crossing my mind. But I know it's not about their quality, but about one's perception.
I would blame TDS only for being released after people got used to previous Thieves.....
Mahoney on 6/6/2006 at 13:32
Too true. I just prefer Thief DS. I like playing in 3rd person, it's just one of those things. I got used to playing stealth style of games in this view due to MGS and SC.
ZylonBane on 6/6/2006 at 13:47
Quote Posted by ~s:a:n:i:t:y~
I've been through TG and TDP, but they didn't leave a slightest trace in my heart
Wow. Your heart must be a well of infinite suck.
Vincent_21 on 6/6/2006 at 13:53
Regarding my image of the afflicted tailor... thats not a fantasy which endures throughtout my spleen lapses... its only a predicatable event when analysing the thief world. Romantism was there... as well as vivid demonstrations of a venal demimonde. So.... we should be able to see young girls, candid... and experient courtesans, decadent, bored.... splatting their deflowered bodies in the pool of luxury, corruption and deceive... and that doesnt interrupt their increasing number of lovers, of men madly in love with them.... how sardonic....
..things didnt get better either...
...i heard someone understood me as unwilling to see young women in thief... thats not true. I think they could be precious addictions... when used with wit and opportunity sense. And they were... the orphaned girl, for instance. What I dont like is that lack of opressive, accentuated emotions. Who wrote the story limited to display a sequence of events where human nature was quite forgotten. Its like writing a short story, with no details at all... so, all we have to have is a fertile imagination to mollify it all... the mind behind it should have enriching the plot with even the lesser details. Come on... look at Tolkien's productions!... ...and the story still keep us guessing..... enigmas, given by an unexplained plot, arent the key to perpetual wonder. There are other ways....
A member thought it was amusing to hope that my age was over 14, so that my depravity could be easly understood. After all... we all exist under the same firmament. Our peregrination in life has understandable alterations, offered by the inevitable accumulation of years... so, a sobbing women is a depraved image?.... why?.... because we dont see that nowadays?.... at least that way... where emotions werent restrained by an absorbing society? Whose more depraved after all?... the celestial creature i described, with a consumed heart, or a contemporanean woman?... ..think a bit.....
I did post some writings with acerbic images... with sordid descriptions. Yes... i conjecture i was under alienating musical influence.... that happens, sometimes. And i thought today's liberality would allow them to be naturally seen... ...what amazes me is how was i the only one posting them. Or the first. Wasnt conservatism left behind?.... At least they werent censured, loll... :)
But pudibund souls, unaffected hearts u may rest serenely... my impiety is over!... I am actually hearing Cold Mountain's O.S.T now.... so aphorisms have to be preserved...
I should have been the protagonist.... how unfair life is...........
~s:a:n:i:t:y~ on 6/6/2006 at 14:04
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Wow. Your heart must be a well of infinite suck.
I haven't tried to analize why I didn't enjoy them so much. I'm just expressing a thought that maybe if I started from T1 and T2 and went on to TDS, I probably would feel different. But it didn't happen :)
P.S.
My boyfriend can talk for hours about fido, but he doesn't necessary insists that internet $ux :)
P.P.S.
Ok, maybe it was an exaggeration. Of course I liked Thieves 1 and 2!:D
It's just that...well...errr.....I just like TDS more))..
New Horizon on 6/6/2006 at 15:09
Quote Posted by ~s:a:n:i:t:y~
Thanks to that post I finally understand why I consider TDS a great game - I never took part in any discussions and problem fixing, or experienced any problems with the game. I've been through TG and TDP, but they didn't leave a slightest trace in my heart, which gives me a right to think of it as of differences of opinions and not as of T1/T2 predominance.
It's a matter of habit - controls, graphics, etc...
Unlike T1 and T2 fans, I was feeling the lack of magic in both games, and that was why I hurried to the end so much and the idea to replay T1 or T2 had never even been close to crossing my mind. But I know it's not about their quality, but about one's perception.
I would blame TDS only for being released after people got used to previous Thieves.....
I'm not sure you grasped what I was trying to say in my post at all. We 'the fanbase' were supportive of TDS in the beginning and the majority of us quite liked it, but it was after the sunny glow of 'new Thief' wore off, that we started to see the game for what it really was. It's like buying a used car, for the first month or so...you can't find fault in it...it's perfect, but after the newness wears off...you start to hear the rattles and squeaks. Such was the case with TDS.
I really can't understand how you could say there was no magic in T1 and 2, when the obvious amount of depth within those two games far surpasses TDS. The writing was stronger, the environments richer, and of course...the explorable areas huge. You could sometimes get lost in levels.
The change in art direction, poor animation and poor character control is hardly a matter of habit...it's a fact and has been addressed by the developers themselves, some of whom I've spoken to in private. You're not wrong to like TDS, that's your preference and you're entitled to it, but you are wrong in suggesting that the core fanbase is simply complaining because nothing is exactly the same. It's that in many cases there is complete disregard for the established style and grace of the previous titles.
