Papy on 13/8/2009 at 21:50
Quote Posted by Pidesco
A challenge, better sound design, it was scary, more audio logs (and IMO, much better), a larger number of different enemy types.
Play BioShock with Vita-Chambers deactivated and without saving every 15 seconds and you'll have your challenge. Playing that way, I'd say both were about the same (I played SS2 on hard and BioShock on normal).
I can't argue on the sound system, but this is a very minor annoyance.
I never really found SS2 to be scary, except for my own life. The story didn't really worked for me. Overall, I was more interested with BioShock's story than with SS2 story.
There is about the same amount of audio logs and they also have the same structure. I counted and compared them.
As for larger number of different enemy types, that's something I didn't compare. This is an insignificant detail for me. Just out of curiosity, how many kind of enemies were in SS2 and BioShock?
Zygoptera on 13/8/2009 at 22:00
The biggest difference between SS2 and Bioshock is the RPG system, because that effects almost all the other differences (except the execrable sound propagation in BS which is just down to ?laziness? ?Eric Brosius leaving?), encompassing not just the stats, but the inventory too. Every playthrough of BS feels almost exactly like you're playing the same game with exactly the same character, has the same difficulty curve (ignoring 'hey, just play standing on your head/ chop off some fingers/ gouge your eyes out' type challenges) and ends up feeling pointless because nothing you do makes any meaningful difference since generic AI A/B/C respawns at a rate that makes SS2's look slow and measured and you know you will end up upgrading everything to close to their max, and if you want you can always respec most of it anyway. BS is far and away at its best when it stops trying to be a dumb corporate committee designed generic shootfest and shows some imagination and atmosphere without huge dollops of obligatory acshun!!! interfering.
Bioshock doesn't really steal its story from SS2, both stories are very similar to another game Levine wrote earlier with a mysterious quest giver who later turns out to be the main antagonist, albeit a game with a more discrete mission structure. If you really want to you can even use their comparison for deep philosophical analysis like: Game 1 ~anarchism, Game 2 ~communism, Game 3 ~capitalism.
Hence game 4 will be about fascism
Pidesco on 13/8/2009 at 22:09
Quote Posted by Papy
Play BioShock with Vita-Chambers deactivated and without saving every 15 seconds and you'll have your challenge. Playing that way, I'd say both were about the same (I played SS2 on hard and BioShock on normal).
I played Bioshock on hard with the Vita chambers turned on. I needed to use the chambers once, until I got the camera. After that, I died a lot more, because I started to compulsively face enemies armed with just the camera. No saving, unless I had to leave the game. I generally suck at shooters, by the way.
Quote Posted by Papy
As for larger number of different enemy types, that's something I didn't compare. This is an insignificant detail for me. Just out of curiosity, how many kind of enemies were in SS2 and BioShock?
In Bioshock there's the Big Daddies, the turret thingies and four or five different kinds of splicers.
In SS2 there's the hybrids, the reavers, the rumblers, the monkeys, the assassins, the midwives, the turrets, the helper robots, the maintenance robots, the arachnids, the swarm, and the worms.
Not only are there more enemies in SS2, but their vastly different from each other.
Papy on 13/8/2009 at 22:30
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
Every playthrough of BS feels almost exactly like you're playing the same game with exactly the same character
I rarely play a game more than once. To me, both SS2 and BioShock have no value on a second playthrough.
Quote Posted by Pidesco
until I got the camera. After that, I died a lot more, because I started to compulsively face enemies armed with just the camera.
And if you didn't use the camera you would still have died a lot because of being too weak. Anyway, my point was that BioShock's difficulty was more or less equivalent of SS2. I tried BioShock on hard and I was dying more often than SS2 on hard, that's why I played on normal.
Zygoptera on 13/8/2009 at 22:31
Quote Posted by Pidesco
I played Bioshock on hard with the Vita chambers turned on. I needed to use the chambers once, until I got the camera.
I played on hard second time through. Died first time at Hephaestus, and about five times in total- and a couple of those times was because it was quicker to die and respawn than bother fighting the enemies.
Quote:
I generally suck at shooters, by the way.
Prior to BS the last shooter I had played was FEAR, then Deus Ex, so I was far from an expert too.
So yeah, BS is not the most challenging game in the world.
DaBeast on 13/8/2009 at 23:12
I just play BS a bit there with EAX turned on. No sound errors. Sure I heard stuff but it didn't sound right beside me or anything. I do recall playing with earphones, and therefore EAX off, and the problem was there.
I read a bit about it as well, some guy says if you have EAX turned on and still get the sound issues then your Card doesn't fully support it.
As for the subsequent opinions on the game. Thats all it is, your opinions. I still see nothing concrete that makes BS the shitty lower game its being made out to be.
I found the difficulty to be pretty much on par with SS2. The lack of Exp system is no loss for me since I've been saying for ages that I'd like to see that more. In a way BS plays like a cross between both the SS games.
heywood on 14/8/2009 at 00:23
I played Bioshock on hard from the beginning and the only place I remember struggling a bit was the open area at the start of the 3rd level (wharf?). I died a couple times there, once more in the Peach Wilkins boss fight I think, and maybe once or twice after. But the camera makes a big difference. If you don't use the camera, you'll start getting your butt kicked around Hephaestus when the splicers get tougher. The Big Daddy battles were always way too easy though unless you deliberately try to limit yourself to ineffective weapons.
But even if I had died more and the Big Daddy battles were harder, I'd still say SS2 was more of a challenge because resources are more scarce in SS2 and the character and weapon choices you make have more impact. The first time I played through SS2, I literally thought about how to approach every enemy encounter from the standpoint of ammo use & weapon degradation, agonized over how to spend my cyber modules, mulled over the cost/benefit of backtracking to that vending machine to restock AP bullets, and shit like that.
While playing Bioshock, I always had plenty of ammo and more money and Adam than I knew what to do with. The only time I had to think about how to approach splicer encounters was when I was trying to get action shots with the camera.
Quote Posted by Stitch
Also: the two games play completely differently. SS2 and Bioshock have different moods and evoke different reactions in the player. It is only natural some will prefer the experience one provides over the other, while others will feel completely differently.
True. And it's surprising just how different the games play considering how similar they are and that they share so many of the same gameplay systems. I guess it just shows how much the mood & atmosphere of a game affect our opinions about it.
fett on 14/8/2009 at 02:06
Quote Posted by Tenkahubu
So perhaps it might have been nice if, just before release, somebody had taken the time to post saying 'sorry but we had to cut x, y and z, but please try the game anyway'.
Most of us probably would have, and been happier for the revised expectations.
That's all I've been trying to say. :erg:
fett on 14/8/2009 at 02:10
Quote Posted by Papy
I rarely play a game more than once. To me, both SS2 and BioShock have no value on a second playthrough.
Double post but holy crap - you haven't even really played SS2 until you've done it with a different character from the one you used the first time. I would venture that SS2 is probably the MOST re-playable game in my collection, second only to some of the Elder Scrolls installments and Company of Heroes. :confused:
