Vivian on 11/8/2009 at 23:33
Whether or not Bioshock was last-minute tarded he definitely has got a head like a potato
heywood on 12/8/2009 at 03:08
Chris Kline's IGDA presentation lays out what got changed when. It really should be required reading for anybody who posts about what Bioshock might have been.
Personally, I avoided all the Bioshock anticipation. After DX:IW, I didn't want to get all hyped up just to be disappointed. Yet I was still disappointed. So I can see how people who got caught up in all the hype could be more than just disappointed, even bitter.
The people who impressed me most are the artists. And the ones who let me down the most are probably the level designers.
I'm not convinced that Ken Levine is the con artist people make him out to be. I think he got used by the big 2K PR machine, and let all the press attention go to his head. Also, I think he underestimated the progression of game design since the SS2 days, and consequently thought he was doing something more innovative than he was. But I suspect that at his core he's still "one of us".
Papy on 12/8/2009 at 03:24
Quote Posted by fett
it's pretty douchy the way he played up BioShock to this particular community, then disappeared without so much as a hand-wringing apology when all his assurances turned out to be false.
Apology? Why should he apologize? For "lying"? Give me a break! For fuck sake, 7 months before the release of the game, based on what Ken Levine said, it was obvious to me BioShock would be extremely dumbed down. Here's something I said in January 2007 :
[INDENT]
Quote:
I tried to believe in the marketing crap. But I guess this is now too much, the noise was too loud and I just woke up. Maybe I'll check again here to see what people think of the game in June or July, but, somehow, I think there will be enough flames to make hell looks kind of cold.
[/INDENT]
The problem is most people kept reading only what they wanted to read and interpreting what Ken Levine wrote only the way they wanted.
BTW, ironically, I think BioShock was a very good game after all.
Quote Posted by fett
It's nothing personal, but it does say something about a man's character when he can't even be bothered to own up.
Considering TTLG is now more or less like NMA, the fact that he decided to leave it there says to me he's a reasonable man.
Quote Posted by michaelg
No, it wasn't as good as SS2
That's a matter of taste. BioShock had a lot of flaws, but so did SS2. Overall, I preferred BioShock to SS2. (With Vita-Chambers deactivated of course, as Vita-Chambers are the one major game breaking feature to me)
fett on 12/8/2009 at 03:58
Your inspired prophecy aside, the fact remains that he led this community on, specifically because of our relationship with him and his past games, knowing full well that he was talking out of his ass. To what ends I have no idea, but it was disingenuous at best. That's all I'm saying.
@Matthew :laff::laff:
Aja on 12/8/2009 at 04:07
Bioshock's a weird thing for me because I almost entirely recognize the complaints levelled against it by this community, and in most instances I agree it could've benefited from these certain changes. And yet I still adored it. Maybe I'm just a huge sucker for aesthetics, or maybe it's that I went in with fairly low expectations (I'd never even played SS2).
(third act was still lame though)
mgeorge on 12/8/2009 at 04:53
Quote Posted by Aja
(third act was still lame though)
I agree. I'm not sure why they continued with the game after the third act. I would have preferred a very short game rather than drudging onward after that. It's like they added the last act more for filler than anything else.
Aja on 12/8/2009 at 04:55
Actually, low expectations did not play a role here. My expectations are low for almost every new game.
Zygoptera on 12/8/2009 at 06:33
Quote Posted by fett
I don't have any special hatred for Ken (just the general kind) but it's pretty douchy the way he played up BioShock to this particular community, then disappeared without so much as a hand-wringing apology when all his assurances turned out to be false.
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1654123#post1654123) He was here after Bioshock's release. As earlier, I think the biggest problem was that 2kElizabeth who was doing most of the late term forum marketing stuff
did disappear.
fett on 12/8/2009 at 13:21
Quote Posted by Aja
(I'd never even played SS2).
That explains 100% why you weren't a bit disappointed with BioShock, mate. :)
@Zyg - I must have missed that post, and I commend him for at least he saying, "Hey, the game is what it is." For some reason, I remember him after the demo trying to convince us that it wasn't dumbed down, etc. Maybe I'm getting that mixed up with 2kElizabeth. I've consumed a lot of alcohol since then.
And this still doesn't address the issue of him touching me in my special place with his Big Daddy. :(
Stitch on 12/8/2009 at 14:39
Quote Posted by fett
That explains 100% why you weren't a bit disappointed with BioShock, mate. :)
Eh, I'll take Bioshock over SS2 any day. While I think Bioshock is the more flawed of the two, I actually enjoyed playing it, which is more than I can say for SS2. That isn't meant as a
criticism of SS2, as the game is actually very good at doing what it does, but one thing it does
not do is "Bioshock but better."
And the fact that any of you think a developer owes you a personal apology because you didn't like a game borders on obscene.
