Good Ken L interview on Gaming

heywood on 13/8/2009 at 14:10

Quote Posted by DaBeast

EAX problem?

Unfortunately, no. The problem was there on the two different machines I tried, one with a Creative card and one with on-board AC97 audio. And it was also there on the X-Box. Seems like they simply never programmed it in. Either that or they disabled it because of unfixed bugs.

This one issue alone did a lot to ruin the atmosphere for me. The other thing that ruined the atmosphere for me was the mindless boring tediousness of killing splicers. I thought killing hybrids in SS2 became tedious at times, but I'll take them over splicers any day. Somehow, despite all the plasmids and cool animations, killing splicers never gave me an ounce of satisfaction.

There are so many similarities between SS2 and Bioshock that I think it's legitimate to call it a spiritual successor. And I can appreciate what they tried to do. I really can. But it just didn't give me much of a challenge or much enjoyment.

Stitch on 13/8/2009 at 14:43

Quote Posted by Koki

They didn't fucking mention "one positive aspect of BioShock" they blatantly fucking stated that Bioshock is a better game than SS2.

Yeah, but who here is really making that argument? At least, if you scale back your internet rage you'll find most of us making the case for Bioshock are stating that we simply preferred it over SS2, not that it is the superior of the two. I actually respect what SS2 was doing quite a bit, it just wasn't my cup of tea.

SubJeff on 13/8/2009 at 15:52

SPOILERS

BioShock is superior only in presentation. Let's face it- its more than a spiritual successor, its an outright rip off right down to your original "helper" actually being your nemesis in disguise. It looks and sounds better but other than that it is just a flashy shadow of SS2.

BioShock lacks the depth in either plot, game play mechanics or challenge. That might be up your street but you must accept that it is the truth.

You see Aja, BS and SS2 are SO similar in underlying structure - setting, game play mechanics and plot - that it is impossible for SS2 fans NOT to experience the flash without the substance. Your first exprience of the SS2/BS setup-plot-mechanic was the shallower one. Nevetheless SS2 will not have been the same for you.

Its like being brought up on some fish cooked the wrong way by your mum then having the real thing at 20 and saying yuk. The problem is you, not the food, though no one can deny that subjectively you prefer your mum's messed up stuff. Its still messed up though.

mgeorge on 13/8/2009 at 18:04

I've asked this before and I'll ask again. If BS was such a shitty shallow game, what other recent games are better? I can only think of a few I personally enjoyed more.

VTM Bloodlines, fantastic game but really buggy upon release.
Stalker. Great game but weak story as far as I can tell...
Dead Space. I finally finished this recently and while I really enjoyed it, it's not leaving a very lasting impression on me, and was a bit to "actiony" for my tastes.
Indigo Prophecy. This game had some of the worst stealth and controls ever in a PC game, plus a disappointing ending, but it was so different from anything else I'd ever played that I couldn't help but love it.

Those are the only 4 that come to mind off the top of my head. Out of those 4, Bloodlines is the only game that to me has the 3 things I look for in a game, and in order. Story, gameplay, graphics.

I'd say despite some flaws in Stalker, Dead Space and Indigo, I still enjoyed them more than BS overall, but it's still right up near the top of the heap.

Since getting a new computer I've played a bunch of newer games that I couldn't prior to this. (ME, FO3, Witcher), and while there're all good, I can honestly say I enjoyed BS more.

So what's better? Rip me a new asshole ttlg'ers and lets hear em!

jay pettitt on 13/8/2009 at 18:21

World of Goo.

Aja on 13/8/2009 at 18:28

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

You see Aja, BS and SS2 are SO similar in underlying structure - setting, game play mechanics and plot - that it is impossible for SS2 fans NOT to experience the flash without the substance. Your first exprience of the SS2/BS setup-plot-mechanic was the shallower one. Nevetheless SS2 will not have been the same for you.

Its like being brought up on some fish cooked the wrong way by your mum then having the real thing at 20 and saying yuk. The problem is you, not the food, though no one can deny that subjectively you prefer your mum's messed up stuff. Its still messed up though.

This is a stupid argument. I could see SS2's plot twist a mile away. Hell, I saw it from the box art. Your argument does not hold water because you can't subjectively (ironic) demonstrate that one game is better than another (because that's IMPOSSIBLE). You list why you liked one more, but you can't submit that as irrefutable evidence. As far as I'm concerned there are some things Bioshock does much better—maybe they're presentational; what's the difference? Am I required to prefer depth of number-systems over voice acting and writing and art design? Well subjective effect thinks that's shallow of me uuuuuhhh "Messed up" is such a blatantly subjective (aha) term that it shouldn't even factor into any serious discussion. You're like some missionary coming into the jungle crying BUT OURS IS BETTER IF ONLY YOU WEREN'T SO PRIMITIVE YOU'D UNDERSTAND!!

ps I am railing against this new notion that art and sound design are somehow the "shallower" aspects of gaming. Just because certain gamers have little sense of aesthetic appreciation... for some of us, that's what's important

Stitch on 13/8/2009 at 20:12

Also: the two games play completely differently. SS2 and Bioshock have different moods and evoke different reactions in the player. It is only natural some will prefer the experience one provides over the other, while others will feel completely differently.

Get over it.

Koki on 13/8/2009 at 20:37

Quote Posted by Stitch

So you liked Bioshock more even though it was worse. Well that's even better.

SubJeff on 13/8/2009 at 20:47

Quote Posted by Aja

This is a stupid argument. I could see SS2's plot twist a mile away.

Of course, you played BS first. Duh.

Quote:

Your argument does not hold water because you can't subjectively (ironic) demonstrate that one game is better than another (because that's IMPOSSIBLE).

No it isn't. This is one of my pet hates - that quality is inherently subjective. It isn't. It can be but if a game is just cack, bugged, poorly designed etc it will objectively be worse than another that shares none of these features.

Take my fish example - if your mum fed you burnt to shit salmon for 16 years and you came to accept it as the norm then it is you who have the messed up perception, not the people who like it cooked but not burnt to shit.

I totally agree that there are some things that BS does better, and I've already said so so why bring it up again? I don't think that art and sound design are necessarily shallower aspects of gaming, but sometimes they are. If a game looks and sounds great but plays like utter crap its still crap.

Stitch - I agree that you can like one over the other. What you cannot do is argue with SS2 fans that they are wrong about SS2 being better and BS being a let down when BS was hyped as the successor, especially when you haven't even played SS2 to be able to make a comparison.

Like what you want. Just recognise your limits. I don't comment on Scotch. You get me?

I understand why certain prefer BS over SS2. It looks better, its certainly more accessible, its less challenging. Its fun. But its fun like a big budget action movie.

Chade on 13/8/2009 at 21:37

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

I understand why certain prefer BS over SS2. It looks better, its certainly more accessible, its less challenging. Its fun. But its fun like a big budget action movie.

Oh yeah, I can just see the empathy creeping out from every pore of this shitty little snide sentence. :grr:

I prefer SS2 to BS, but there are definately non-trivial things that BS does better. The game world is often densely populated with objects which interact in lots of ways, similar to BS but better. The big daddies in general and the big daddy battles in particular add a lot of new ways in which you can interact with the environment. The act of murdering a big daddy is something that a few people have found emotionally difficult, myself included. It's not all just candy and popcorn.