Sulphur on 19/6/2018 at 06:45
Quote Posted by zombe
Ah, the sweet-sweet confusion.
Is it fair to say that what you meant to convey was something like: If one has a choice then for AMD, the new APIs should be used as their implementation for earlier APIs is markedly really bad if compared to Nvidia which pays a significantly lesser penalty for earlier APIs. In other words, if you have a choice between equally powerful AMD and Nvidia hardware then pick Nvidia as it is either demonstrably better or just equal (the unlikely worst case scenario).
Indeed. However, you've added detail to it by breaking down the components of overall performance, so that's been helpful to anyone reading, I'm sure. It's good to hear from someone who has their hands in the metaphorical guts of the system. Very enlightening.
zombe on 20/6/2018 at 08:39
In case i have scared anyone away from AMD, let me add a bit more of my enthusiastic blabbering.
First, it is easier if we say that Intel does not exist - because it essentially does not. Ok, that out of the way ... here goes ...
Story time. A few weeks ago i was in search for a suitable texture format for this-or-other. Easily found one i was happy with and proceeded to check its support and found that considerable percentage of cards do not support it. Probably mobiles, but let's check. So, made a query to list all devices that do not support it ... every single one of them AMD. That was in fact the entire AMD lineup - past and present. So, i did not use that format.
And that is the point. Games are made for lowest common denominator hardware foremost - that is AMD (although their market percentage is worryingly low, but still big enough). In other words, for a consumer it does not matter much that internally AMD is a bit crappy. They will usually never see it. What used to be AMD strategy was to make cards cheaply but with equal computation power compared to Nvidia by doing the minimum needed for DX camp and nothing else. That did not really work, but not because the strategy was not solid. I think it was because their drivers were terrible and never went anywhere which nullified their cheap hardware advantage. A death spiral ensued with dire predictions for the future. Mantle to the rescue!
Never underestimate a cornered dog. While Mantle did not really fly - it pawed the way forwards for everyone (ie. Oi! Guys, our hardware is fairly similar now - is it not time to make a new API without the bollocks abstraction shitfest?). Now we have Vulkan (DX12 too). - which benefits everyone.
* Intel was completely hopeless at every API before - vulkan it can do (sadly, integrated stuff is fairly useless - lets hope for a discrete GPU from them. They now have a chance where there was none before).
* AMD had persistently problems with earlier APIs - vulkan it can do.
* Nvidia, while shitting bricks, could manage earlier APIs fine - but vulkan is just better.
As long as pre Vulkan/DX12 stuff dies out - AMD has a strong comeback opportunity. Don't dismiss AMD outright.
heywood on 20/6/2018 at 16:55
For me, the decision making process is simple. I look at benchmarks of the games I want to play and identify the AMD and NVidia cards that provide acceptable frame rates on those games. If the acceptable AMD and NVidia alternatives are similar in price, energy consumption, and noise, I will buy AMD simply to bolster the competition. We will all be worse off if NVidia puts AMD out of the gaming GPU business. AMD used to offer better price/performance before all this crypto-mining nonsense took off, but these days their price/performance is near parity or even advantage to NVidia in some cases. One thing I don't like about NVidia is G-Sync and the associated markup. My monitor supports FreeSync, but the minimum refresh rate it will sync to is 52 Hz, so it's not a big selling point. For me, right now, the higher energy consumption and thermal output of the high end AMD cards tips me toward the NVidia side.
voodoo47 on 20/6/2018 at 18:14
my process is also simple - buy whatever has a 6pin power connector and the best price/performance ratio at the given moment, and is NOT nvidia because f*ck them for delivering the final blow to 3dfx. so yeah, Ati/AMD.
Sulphur on 20/6/2018 at 19:48
Almost completely tangential, but more news on GPU availability: (
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem) https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem.
Whether that's good or bad news is... well, it's not really open to interpretation, this is kinda stupid if they really do have an inventory surplus that's preventing them from announcing the next generation. However, as the writer discloses, they're shorting nvidia stock, so take the subjective bits with a few shakes of salt.
heywood on 21/6/2018 at 11:50
This sounds like good news to me. There may be pent-up demand among gamers, but prices are still somewhat inflated. GTX 1060, 1070, and 1080 cards are all selling for more now than they did at introduction in 2016. Even MSRP on those cards is higher now than it was in 2016. NVidia is advertising 1080 Ti cards for $699 but they are perpetually out of stock. All the other decent 1080 Ti cards are in the $800-900 range. If there is a surplus of GPUs and NVidia is aggressively buying memory, I presume this means their own boards will become consistently available again which will put some downward price pressure on their partners.
Sulphur on 21/6/2018 at 18:49
It's really not that great, because let's say you pull the trigger on getting one of those parts now. They're old, having been in the market for 2 years now, which is somewhat unprecedented given the normal cadence of releases for GPUs. It'd be a bit tragic if you get one of them now and in a few months' time there's a bunch of new parts released that effectively replace the 10xx line with better-performing SKUs at competitive prices - given the earlier rumours, we're likely to see something new in the coming months at least. But it's not fun, this game, and the uncertainty of when nvidia/AMD are releasing the next generation of parts hangs over the enterprise like the sword of Damocles.
voodoo47 on 21/6/2018 at 19:14
on a slightly related note, trying to find a good graphics card bargain on ebay might not be such a good idea;
[video=youtube;Ved84d_6occ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ved84d_6occ[/video]