june gloom on 13/10/2009 at 19:45
Just answer the fucking question.
SubJeff on 13/10/2009 at 20:04
Seconded. Answer it or fuck off. Forever.
Who are you again?
Wait, forget it. I don't care. Just get lost.
mgeorge on 13/10/2009 at 20:14
Quote Posted by Xenith
Then play it over and over and over again like most other people that consider it to be the rpg, rts, fps, arcade, adventure and tabletop king of all. You're not going to find innovation if you're not looking for it, because it's not going to jump out in your face and say "Hey! I'm new! Check me out! You've never seen anything like me! 2nd person view how awes0me iz that!?".
Why not? Games
should punch you in the face and say "look at me, I'm different!!" Bioshock did it as a marketing ploy and it worked. The game didn't actually contain much that was different, but the game sold a whole lot of copies, and despite what many here think of it, was very successful.
Just because
you're happy with the current offering of games, doesn't mean everyone is.
Now I'd better get out of here before everyone starts picking on me again. Especially Deathtoll. :erm:
Xenith on 13/10/2009 at 20:21
Quote:
Why not? Games should punch you in the face and say "look at me, I'm different!!"
That's why I said you should settle for less nowadays.
Look at Timeshift. It's nothing special and you could say that the whole time control thing is old stuff. But it's the only fps game (correct me if I'm wrong) that actually lets you reverse time. That enters the "innovation" category, right? Is it outstanding? No. Is it something you never saw before in any other fps? Yes.
SubJeff on 13/10/2009 at 20:22
BioShock is an odd choice because yes the marketing made it out to be something new but oh no we'd seen it all before just less shiny. We know it was successful, the issue is it shouldn't have been.
EvaUnit02 on 13/10/2009 at 20:40
Quote Posted by Xenith
Look at Timeshift. It's nothing special and you could say that the whole time control thing is old stuff. But it's the only fps game (correct me if I'm wrong) that actually lets you reverse time. That enters the "innovation" category, right? Is it outstanding? No. Is it something you never saw before in any other fps? Yes.
The Xbox platformer Blinx perhaps?
Zygoptera on 13/10/2009 at 20:48
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I don't see how the gravity gun is unoriginal (if that is indeed what you mean be "definition of iteration").
The only thing original about it is that it is a gun, all the concepts- pull object, throw object, gravity effects objects- and the implementations have a long history in gaming except for them being combined (haha) into a gun. Think of it this way, is the Bioshock equivalent original because it isn't a gun, but is a plasmid? Of course, in that case and in the Fallout 3 equivalent there isn't even iteration going on either.
Quote:
But the way the enemy changed in HL2, the way your enemies from HL1 (Vorties) became allies and of course your new role as G-Man's emissary - all this was pretty fresh.
That's a unique take on original.
Generally I find that if a plot summary can be accurately changed into that of another game simply by changing the nouns involved it probably isn't very original. If you replaced every reference to HL nouns with [gamenoun] I'd think you were talking about Deus Ex. The enemies become allies trope is old as the hills.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
To use a game specific example here, we'll take Planescape Torment. If it came out nowadays, same story and all, would you groan, roll your eyes, and say "oh gawwwddd, not another one" when you hear that it's yet another game where the protagonist starts out with amnesia? Some of you probably would, and you'd be missing out on something great because it's based upon a plot detail that's been all but done to death these last few.
That's an interesting example, because I'd still rank KOTOR2's plot as being fairly original, despite its obvious mirroring of PST's plot and knowing that the concepts used therein aren't truly unique even in the whitebread Star Wars universe.
I'd probably conclude that original (or innovative) isn't really a good word to use, but something like 'fresh' might be more accurate.
Xenith on 13/10/2009 at 20:49
Quote:
The Xbox platformer Blinx perhaps?
Checked it up now. I haven't heard of it because I have almost zero knowledge of console games, since I only have a PC.
Any pc fps games that have time control as a gameplay feature besides TimeShift though?
Anyway, my point is that that specific gameplay gimmick doesn't really scream out "Look at me!".
june gloom on 13/10/2009 at 21:15
Quote Posted by mgeorge
Deathtoll
I notice that most people who spell my name wrong when it's RIGHT THERE FOR THEM TO READ usually tend to be the sort who get butthurt over people saying things relatively harshly. Were you bullied in high school? Is that why you can't handle it when people say things bluntly? Are you going to report us for "harassing" you then send us a big load of bawwww in a PM? 'Cuz uh, that's not exactly innovative, original or fresh around here ;)
SubJeff on 13/10/2009 at 22:46
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
The only thing original about it is that it is a gun, all the concepts- pull object, throw object, gravity effects objects- and the implementations have a long history in gaming
Yes, but not in as much detail and not with the gun. You must admit that the physics in HL2 were, on its release, the most advanced and extensively implemented (in terms of gameplay use) at the time.
Quote:
The enemies become allies trope is old as the hills.
You're over-simplifying here. The Vorties becoming allies was a minor aspect of the plot evolution. Of course its an old plot device, but the way
everything changed in HL2 from HL1 was pretty original. It wasn't that you just switched sides, you had a new enemy and the Vorties were just mixed in with the plot. They needn't even be there but their presence fleshes out the story. Its with that that you realise that the Combine are likely harvesters of worlds.
