GUN vs. BOW!...Fight!

Vasquez on 25/9/2012 at 13:11

First reaction is "No way!", but in the end all depends on how it's done.

LarryG on 25/9/2012 at 18:00

Opens the game to become just another first person shooter. Bleh.

Tomi on 25/9/2012 at 18:56

Quote Posted by Dia

I still disagree; guns would totally ruin the game. I don't care if they're old-fashioned muskets or futuristic lasers - imo they have no place in the Thief world. It's a stealth game, not an FPS, ffs.

Fair enough, although I still don't get it why exactly guns would ruin the game. Yes, they might change the atmosphere of the game a bit, but it wouldn't have to change the original Thiefy gameplay that much. Just because you have a gun in a game doesn't mean that you have to run around killing everyone.

Quote Posted by LarryG

-- just another first person shooter.

Quote Posted by Dia

It's a stealth game, not an FPS, ffs.

It could possibly turn Thief 4 into "just another FPS", that's right, but only in my worst case scenario. Then again, you can grab all the broadheads and fire arrows and explosive mines (etc) that you can find in Thief 1 and 2, and play these games as a first person shooter, and no one ever complained about that...! It depends on how you play the game. If the guns in T4 were hopelessly inaccurate, slow to reload, terribly noisy obviously, and only any good on short range, they'd be a lot worse than fire arrows for example. Of course if the guns were more like modern sniper rifles (and I always hate those in every game, btw) then that'd be totally different, and the game would probably suck big time because of it, but like Vasquez pointed out, it really depends on how the guns are implemented. It could turn out to be something really awesome, or something terribly... terrible.

Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion

-- guns ARE already in TMA, the implementation as discussed IS NOT more FPS-like than having a bow with six fire arrows in the Bonehoard.

I wouldn't like to see a notable proportion of guns in the game, either. But these arguments from a gameplay perspective are just weak. It goes without saying that the game ought to be much more medieval and less Renaissance-like/Victorian etc. to make the anachronisms less painful if guns and cannons were to remain excluded.

Totally agree with Beleg here. I wouldn't like to see guns to be the most common weapon in the game either, and I also certainly don't want it to be Garrett's most used tool. I'd like to see some of the guards have guns though... and because I always find it annoying in games when your enemies have weapons that you can't pick up and use, I'd like the player to have the option to use the gun too (even if it wasn't all that useful). They'd fit quite perfectly in the post-T2 world as well, I think. Anyway, like I said before, I wouldn't mind if there were no guns at all (I still voted for "both" in the poll though) if someone turned back the years and Garrett returned to the medieval era, but in that case the robots and stuff would have to go too. :p

JarlFrank on 26/9/2012 at 13:03

I wouldn't mind the introduction of guns - simple wheellock pistols that take long to reload and are inaccurate at range wouldn't be out of place in the Thief universe at all. The first guns were already around in the late middle ages and I don't see any problem in having them in the Thief universe. They'd be a nice addition to guards as a sidearm - their main weapon would still be the sword, of course. Guns wouldn't be overpowered at all: they'd be slow to reload and less accurate than a bow on long ranges. Still, guards with guns would be dangerous enemies because guns create lots of sound and smoke - everyone will hear the sound of the gunshot and you'll soon have a whole bunch of guards at your heels who all rush to investigate.

As a weapon for Garrett, I'd actually prefer a crossbow to a bow. I always thought a crossbow would be a lot more thief-y weapon than a bow. :P

Quintus Descendant on 27/9/2012 at 05:51

Something that just struck me: if there are guns in Thief IV, who's to say that the exaggerated scar over Garrett's (if that is Garrett's) eye isn't because of a misfired gun? What if gun jammed or malfunctioned, causing shards of ammo and weapon to blow back in his face?

Albert on 27/9/2012 at 06:23

Except it's because his eye got ripped out in the first game. :p

Beleg Cúthalion on 27/9/2012 at 08:19

Quote Posted by JarlFrank

I wouldn't mind the introduction of guns - simple wheellock pistols that take long to reload and are inaccurate at range wouldn't be out of place in the Thief universe at all.

Or rather (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6YZmkxY7JA) matchlock guns which are older. Heck, one could do nice things with blackpowder anyway.

Dia on 27/9/2012 at 11:21

Quote Posted by Quintus Descendant

Uhhhhmmm .... it's common knowledge (at least among Thief fans) how Garrett lost his eye. And it wasn't from a gun. Attempting to rewrite Garrett's history just for the sake of including guns in the next Thief game is just plain ridiculous.

Have you even played the first two games?

Quintus Descendant on 28/9/2012 at 01:36

I've played both of the first two and regularly watch LPs of them, yes. My post was referring to, unless I was mistaken and mixing it up with the concept art, the scar over Garrett's eye in the leaked trailer. In T:DS, it was a long, vertical scar over a mechanical eye, no extra little slashes. What I was trying to say was that, again unless I'm thinking of the scar-eyed guard in the concept art, that a gun could be worked into the canon as damaging Garrett's mechanical eye, leaving further scarring and requiring a replacement. Perhaps said replacement could work in a mix of T2 scouting orbs and the T3 zoom as its function?

I apologize for any misgivings.

Dia on 28/9/2012 at 12:52

Okay. Now I understand what you were trying to say. I highly doubt the devs would mess around with the history of Garrett's mechanical eye or attempt to embellish upon said scars, though. Your ideas could work in an FM, perhaps. Regardless, I still don't believe that guns, whether for guards or other NPCs, have a place in the Thief world. Just my opinion.