Koki on 9/6/2011 at 13:19
Quote Posted by CCCToad
You guys have it backwards.
I want at least SOME games to play the way I want them to play, the old fashioned way that requires smarter strategies than just popping up and down behind cover.
Running and gunning is smarter than popping in and out of cover? Tell me more.
CCCToad on 9/6/2011 at 15:35
Doesn't regenerating health somewhat encourage running and gunning? When health is a finite resource, its in the players interests to preserve it so a straight up "run and gun" strategy will usually get you in a tight spot quickly.
Koki on 9/6/2011 at 15:58
Of course not, silly goose. The whole point of a system with regenerating health is that you have very little of it.
On the other hand, how many games with non-regenerating health can you name in which you can effectively take cover?
CCCToad on 9/6/2011 at 19:41
Quite a few. Except in the old days we called it a "lean" function and it didn't auto-stick.
henke on 9/6/2011 at 19:51
Quote Posted by Koki
On the other hand, how many games with non-regenerating health can you name in which you can effectively take cover?
That probablly has more to do with the whole coversystem becoming fashionable at around the same time as regen. health.
Still: Manhunt & Splinter Cell?
Koki on 9/6/2011 at 19:54
That's interesting. The only run & gun game with lean I can think of is FEAR.
And even then it had the slomo so it's not the best example...
CCCToad on 9/6/2011 at 20:07
Erm....duh, its because you're slapping an irrelavant label called "run and gun" where it doesn't fit. Its like how banning weed is a "right wing" position and banning smoking is a "left wing" position when in reality they're both fascist positions.
For some reason, only the first sentance of that last post actually went up. The fact is, the most popular regen-health games have LESS functional cover systems. COD4, Resistance, and Halo all have neither a lean function nor a "stick" function. In those games, you can't actually fire from cover. You just step behind it, out again, and back repeatedly.
Now, lets look at some older games with a lean function. Deus Ex, Thief, System Shock, all SIN games, l Half Life, Crysis, Arma/VBS, and many others but I think I've made my point.
Interestingly enough, there's a trend of disposing with lean functions in newer games. I suspect that the real reason for these "innovations" is because they work better on console. Human Revolution, Rainbow Six Vegas, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, and Crysis 2 all dropped the cover systems present in their PC only iterations in favor of a "sticky" system like Gears of War has. As for regen health, the only reason that I can think of is that it results in games more suited to the ADD generation of gamers.
CCCToad on 9/6/2011 at 20:10
another post that explains why regen health really should be limited
Quote:
The spatial inventory from Deus Ex succeeded because it struck a familiar, comfortable chord with many RPGers, whether their RPGing bicuspids were cut on the table-top or on phosphorus dots; the inventory presented a quantifiable index of their progress throughout the game, basically becoming the players’ visual representation of their character. Taking stock of your inventory and determining that you’ve got three health packs, four bioelectric cells, two rounds of 30.06 ammo, six Sabot rounds and a lock pick, and then making it through a particularly tough area of the game explicitly because you prudently hoarded your health packs is immeasurably more satisfying than making it through the same area simply because you’re good at hiding behind shit. Removing the illusion that the player is in complete control of his avatar’s condition drives a wedge between the player and the fiction that he’s created for that character independent of the game’s story, and in any RPG, that – more than blue spiky-haired emo protagonists – is the kiss of death
Koki on 9/6/2011 at 20:18
Quote Posted by CCCToad
For some reason, only the first sentance of that last post actually went up. The fact is, the most popular regen-health games have LESS functional cover systems. COD4, Resistance, and Halo all have neither a lean function nor a "stick" function.
Yeah, but they have a shitload of chest-high walls everywhere, so you just crouch.
Quote:
Now, lets look at some older games with a lean function. Deus Ex, Thief, System Shock, all SIN games, l Half Life, Crysis, Arma/VBS, and many others but I think I've made my point.
No, you made
my point. Of that list only SIN is a run & gun game(Half Life had no lean). The rest are either RPG, stealth, sandbox or sim wanabees.
june gloom on 10/6/2011 at 03:53
This argument is fucking stupid, even by TTLG's standards.
