june gloom on 11/6/2011 at 04:27
yakoob unlike dabeast he was making a joke
Koki on 11/6/2011 at 05:21
Quote Posted by Yakoob
oh BULL FUCKING SHIT. I've heard that leaning argument going on forever and IT IS THE SAME THING.
Other than the fact it takes four times as much time and exposes you much more, sure.
Sulphur on 11/6/2011 at 05:44
Wow, Yakoob. That's thinking out of the box.
I mean, here I thought leaning was a logical extension to FPS control for simulating a freer range of motion in tactical combat, but what we should have been doing all this while instead was strafe corners left and right to simulate some sort of moonwalking whack-a-mole on speed.
Genius!
dexterward on 11/6/2011 at 12:25
Yes yes, leaning, staple of a true FPS...but do you actually use it that often?
I know what Yakoob says sounds quite crazy...but recently in Stalker/Crysis I actually had to remind myself - "use lean goddamit! it`s a staple of a tru..." Thing is, it hardly ever works 1st time you lean - I need to tweak to see what I want to see - and that means cumbersome finger gymnastics.
I`m still all for it...maybe it`s just these two games...but a tiny angle these implemented is annoying.
Paradoxically, it works like a charm on joypads :/
Sulphur on 11/6/2011 at 12:50
Stalker's lean is indispensable. The same goes for Fear, SS1/2. In Crysis you can take it or leave it because REGENERATING HEALTH. Even on Delta, cloak and prone/crouch negate the need to lean because they're super effective, and the only cover for most areas is bushes and undergrowth and maybe trees.
The only reason anyone would complain about being unable to deploy lean properly is because they're unable to deploy lean properly - finger gymnastics? It's two keys directly above your normal left and right keys, unless you don't use WASD. Apart from that -- you're not used to taking cover in shooters by yourself, are you.
Yakoob on 11/6/2011 at 13:25
Leaning can be more convenient than strafe out/in and is a welcome additional to a controls menu - I totally agree with you guys on this. But I don't whine like a little bitch when it's not included, since the same behavior can be simulated with strafing in/out and it's still fundamentally the same, that's my whole point. It's like changing crouch to a crouch toggle; one is much nicer and easier on the fingers, but still achieves the same effect. I've also used this technique with oldschool FPSes (HL) for quick cover popouts so its all muscle memory at this point, so maybe that's why it's not as big of a deal to me.
And leaning requires just as much fiddlling and can be immersion breaking. I am bowing in Dark Messiah right now and end up using the strafe technique probably just as much as lean. Why? Because leaning feels so.. awkward? Like get to edge of wall, facing the wall filling your whole screen with a lowrez texture, then lean to the right... nope, still seeing wall, strafe to the right a bit, lean, nope still a bit of a wall. Strafe right some more, lean - ah there we go. That's totally how I lean in real life too, guys, SO IMMERSIVE.
I could have just as easily kept strafing until I saw around without having to complicate shit with an additional lean key. Personally my favorite technique is actually standing looking along wall (not AT it) and rotating your view AS you reveal yourself. Allows you for precise peak out and avoid filling your whole screen with pixelitis.
And the whole "you are less exposed" argument is bogus too. Yes it makes sense in MP, but as aI said, in SP, you get spotted either way. And if you are crouching (which I do 99% of the time just to get the lean position right), your exposed area is pretty much the same anyway.
Koki on 11/6/2011 at 13:29
Quote Posted by Sulphur
It's two keys directly above your normal left and right keys, unless you don't use WASD.
You mean my Special and Use buttons? :confused:
Sulphur on 11/6/2011 at 13:32
you're a special button
@Yak: the point with lean is that it lets you pop off a shot while being mostly behind cover. Whether it works aesthetically or breaks immersion isn't the point, the point is it's quicker and the mathematical probability of you getting shot at is less than strafing in and out of cover like an Energiser bunny on crack, unless the enemy's using hitscan weapons.
As far as Dark Messiah goes, its gameplay has far more issues than lean. Hell, I never even realised it had lean to begin with. I don't think anyone complained about using lean in Thief to put out torches, so what exactly is the issue with using it, again?
dexterward on 11/6/2011 at 13:38
Quote Posted by Sulphur
It's two keys directly above your normal left and right keys, unless you don't use WASD.
I use WASD - in fact I also used it during these few lost years when I played Quake 2 competitively (so spare the digs at my FPS ineptitude). Since then I have one ingrown instinct - you DO NOT take your fingers off WAD for more than a nanosecond it takes to change a weapon. When leaning...well. It`s easier with E, more cumbersome with Q.
Agree about Crysis - but in Stalker its not "indispensible", useful, but not a must.I use it more for the sake of atmosphere. And yes, I do play on hardest. Fear - please :)
`Indispensible` comes into play with LGT games - hell yes.
Sulphur on 11/6/2011 at 13:56
I don't know how you play Stalker, but when I do, crouch + lean is a requirement when scouting an area for additional foes or otherwise facing off a horde of gun-toting maniacs bearing down on you. I'd say that's pretty freaking indispensable unless you like bleeding out to death on a regular basis.
