Hammerite Order vs. the Catholic Church - by Dead Eye
Dead Eye on 22/8/2001 at 02:50
hey keeper,
thats awesome stuff where did you hear that?
Dead Eye on 22/8/2001 at 02:55
Quote:
Originally posted by Spuds:
<STRONG>Don't be a jerk Makaroto. . . . . . . . Don't just flame, it's childish.
</STRONG>
:eek: dude spuds chill out, haven't you ever listened to adam sandler's cd's? i was just qouting him.
i didn't mean anything harsh by what i was saying, but i admit it did stirke me as a little mean that you put such demoralizing faces on your reply, i didn't understand them at all and yes it kinda ticked me off but a simple explanation would have sufficed, its unecessary to call me childish. but i digress, sorry i brought up news that was old to you, and granted my reply was a little harsh. i'll be sure to check the arcives next time and to ask the next time i don't understand anything.
Truce?
Dark Angel on 22/8/2001 at 03:26
Quote:
Thief is just a game. There's no basis of reality in it. The Hammers aren't Catholics any more than the Mechanists are Protestants. Or Jews. Or Muslims.
The point is, is that the fanatical religions of the world of Thief are based on the fanatical religions of what we have in ours. You don't think they just came up with *all* of those Hammerite/Mechanist ideas, do you? They just take Catholic ideas and change them in ways to work for the Hammerites/Mechanists. And as meantioned they also based the Hammerite textures from Catholic cathedral designs.
As i've said in the past, Thief is just a reflection of our world.
Thief is not "just a game", for some of us it is our
reality. Thats just like me saying, your world is just a game, you're just to blind to see that everything is 3d rendered and the "video games" we play are the
real world.
thiefguy122313 on 22/8/2001 at 04:25
Hammerities versus Catholic Church? Well I have not heard of this discussion before but it has been implied. My take on the game is that it has been constructed by the designers from the prospective of a biased world view (secularism) which uneducated people today find normal. The designers of the game simply used the same basic idea that is incorporated into almost every medieval style game, going as far as butchering the King James version of the Bible in order to deepen the atmosphere of what the secular world views as stupid fanatics. This alone is probably nothing that most of us should be to concerned about as the designers are entitled to express their creative thoughts (and besides the fact that the game was never meant to be taken seriously or compared to the real world). I myself am not Catholic and neither do I accept parts of their theology. I am a Messianic Jew and believe in the fundamental ideas of the existence of the God of Israel and Jesus of Nazareth upon logical evidence and reason (historical, archeological, theological, etc). I just dislike it when people who know nothing about what their talking about make some sort of bald assertion that because the Hammertite fanatics are stupid and narrow-sited means that they can draw that statement out into the real world and compare it to anyone that holds some view of the existence of God, and fueling the broiler of secular thought. As an ending note, I do not want this to blow up into a big controversy because I would like to keep the Thief forum dedicated to Thief. Not that can be made to be confined to some little box of religion in ones life (as many pronounced Christians made him to be), but because I want to separate the mundane from the sacred and not pollute the name of the Most Holy God with these types of stupid arguments.
RUtaffenMe on 22/8/2001 at 10:16
Quote:
Originally posted by Spuds:
<STRONG>Let me guess, that's your impression of the pope? :D</STRONG>
Oh hell, I can't go on with those thees and thous...
Just taffen around Spuds ole boy.
Spuds on 22/8/2001 at 14:09
Quote:
Originally posted by Makaroto:
<STRONG> Truce?</STRONG>
Truce.
Spuds on 22/8/2001 at 14:20
Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Angel:
<STRONG>The point is, is that the fanatical religions of the world of Thief are based on the fanatical religions of what we have in ours. You don't think they just came up with *all* of those Hammerite/Mechanist ideas, do you? They just take Catholic ideas and change them in ways to work for the Hammerites/Mechanists.
</STRONG>
See, this is what I don't agree with. Where in the Hammer texts do you see anything remotely similiar to the Catholic religion? Excuse me for being anal on this subject, but I happened to have been raised a Catholic (still am!), and I see no correlation between what I was taught and the 'Builder tenets' of the Hammerite religion that we see snippets of in Thief.
The Hammer icon, I admit, is similiar in appearance to the Crucifix icon. But the Hammer is the tool that the Builder gave the Hammerites to build a civilization with. The Crucifix is an object that Christ died on. I see no correlation between the two. Symbolically, they mean two entirely different things, you dig?
Quote:
<STRONG> And as meantioned they also based the Hammerite textures from Catholic cathedral designs.
</STRONG>
Ok, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Quote:
<STRONG>As i've said in the past, Thief is just a reflection of our world.
</STRONG>
Again, I don't agree with this. The Thief world (a place where science and technology mingles easily with magic and monsters) is nothing like our world.
Quote:
<STRONG>Thief is not "just a game", for some of us it is our
reality. Thats just like me saying, your world is just a game, you're just to blind to see that everything is 3d rendered and the "video games" we play are the
real world.</STRONG>
Yikes. I most certainly don't agree with that. Reality and Thief are two entirely different things. I know you're just making a point here about how immersive and entertaining the game is, but jeeze, you're starting to scare me here. Do your parents know how much time you spend behind a computer?? ;)
Dead Eye on 22/8/2001 at 16:17
<IMG SRC="laff.gif" border="0">
The makers of thief are exceptionally gifted with a great sense of creativity, but i still think they got most of their hammerite ideas from the catolics. (hey spuds i'm catholic too!). The hammerites and the catholics may seem so alike perhaps bacause most religions have many similarities in doctrines. The golden rule for example in found in almost every orginised religion out there. Perhaps its unfair to say the order of the hammer and the catholic church are similar, but it seems that the hammerites, like any orginized religion share some of the same laws with catholic doctrine, Jewish law, and many other faiths.
Dead Eye on 22/8/2001 at 16:29
Quote:
Originally posted by spuds:
Where in the Hammer texts do you see anything remotely similiar to the Catholic religion?at some point in thief 2 karras speaks of how the master builder's plan was to flatten the earth, fill in the valleys, destroy the mountains and cover the earth in a sheet of metal i think it is. Theres a psalm i think it is based on a prophesy. The prophet spoke that the Lord was coming, prepare the way for the Lord, make straight his paths. He also spoke of the mountains crumbling into the valleys thus perfecting the earth.
even though i paraphrased, it still seems alike, and i mean, all religions have some sort of apocolispe theory, but the hammerite/mechanist theory just seemed so close to that of the catholics.
i'll try and find the exact phrasing of each tonight when i get home, i'm just now getting to the end of thief 2 on expert (heh for the 3rd time, i never get itred of it) and i'll try and get karras' exaxact words. i'll check the good Book as well.
steal well
[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Makaroto ]
