Dr Sneak on 22/11/2006 at 16:45
Hammers kill the homeless!:ebil:
Elentari on 23/11/2006 at 01:15
They *do* take collections. As mentioned by that 'tithes' comment, as well as in TDS you pickup/leave something in a collections box outside St. Edgars.
That being said. . .whether or not any of those donations actually make it out to the poor is another matter. Between Garrett picking them clean so often and the Hammers' tendencies for extravagence, I would surmise they don't. Or if some does. . .its only the bare minimum to keep the appearance that they do so people donate more.
qolelis on 23/11/2006 at 16:22
No, the Hammers don't really come off as very "charity-friendly", but there's a difference between collecting money (which is something I can see the Hammers do) and actually handing it out to the people in need (which is something I can not see them do). Also, since I only have my own sentiments to rely on in this subject I wanted to hear the general (and hopefully more informed) opinion.
The real reason I'm asking is that I had a certain idea involving charity that would solve a certain problem that I was faced in a certain situation, but after a while I got in doubt that this certain idea really was as good as I had fooled myself into believing. Doubt turned into sureness turned into "Hey, that idea sucks!".
qolelis on 23/11/2006 at 16:26
Quote Posted by sluggs
MM, that made no sense at all! :laff: A correct response to "If a woodchuck could chuck wood, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck?" would be something like...
[blahblahblah]
That actually reminds me of "Singing in the rain" and the scene where the main character goes to a speech terapeut...
Rhadamanthos on 23/11/2006 at 18:47
IN TDS, you can overhear a commoner saying "I hear the hammers will give you bread, if you just do a few chores."
That kind of "charity" seems much mroe likely, given their ethos. Given what we read about forced labor in Cragscleft and St. Edgars, you can guess what those few chores are like.
DarkFlow on 23/11/2006 at 21:20
I'm sure the Hammers would never help out non-believers, not even in an attempt to convert them, but would help out those who supported them earlier. Sort of like a charity for the 'rich and donating' in need.
Elentari on 23/11/2006 at 21:58
And yet, while they do not seem like the charity type. . .if they did not do *something* to at least make people feel/think as if they are. . .why would people keep donating? I mean, money does not seem exactly plentiful for the common people, so why would they donate to a lost cause? Certainly not enough to warrant 'drop boxes' on the street I would think. I mean, their reputation as being a harsh, uncaring group would spread like crazy and people would keep their money for more. . .useful things.
I mean, would YOU donate to a group you knew wouldn't help anyone, but would only spend the donations. You'd hang onto your money too. . .or find some *other* place to give it too. (Like the Keepers? Must explain *their* luxuries. . .:laff:)
The inscrutable po on 23/11/2006 at 22:13
Why do Hammerite guards stay with the group? Seems they have to work a lot of hours and they don't get much pay. They have no privacy and sleep in barracks. As far as I know they are not promised an afterlife and yet they stand around reciting their favorite lines from scripture and devotedly fight to the death anyone who threatens their sanctuaries or leaders.
One thing missing from Thief is the common man of the city. There are pagans who live in the wild or on the street. There are nobles and merchants, but aside from the occasional servant the masses are invisible. Where are the lower class families working the factories and producing the stock from which the Hammers recruit? I know they're there. I can hear them when I stand next to a crowded tavern, but I never see them.
DarkThiefsie on 23/11/2006 at 23:19
Well most thief missions take place at night...
Elentari on 23/11/2006 at 23:23
They're all in their beds sleeping, of course! :)
In truth, thats one thing thats bugged me about the games is the sheer lack of people. But as with a lot of games, the more 'mobiles' there are, the slower the game will run, so I think they cut out a lot of the unnecessaries. There's a lot missing from the city that you would see in that 'era' setting. Horses/donkeys/cattle (yes I know its a city, but even London had cab horses, and other stables for people travelling. Some families could own a horse or a cow for milk, etc), cats, dogs, (more) rats, children, family dwellings, etc.
But I do think its just been cut out for sheer necessity to give you what you need to play the game comprehensively, but cut out what you don't so that things will run faster and smoother. I think you need to figure there is a LOT more life in the city than you see. And the fact that its late at night sort of helps. Children would be in bed, a lot of 'normal' people would either be indoors doing a few late night tasks or asleep entirely. And why would Garrett have any motivation to break into the normal homes? He would not be likely to gain a lot and the risk of someone waking up is a lot.
I suppose you could even go so far as to say a lot of the cats and dogs are kept indoors as well. NOt sure about the creatures that would be stabled. I've seen a few stables and they are either empty or have a burrick in them. (De-gassed burricks?) And we've seen some rats, but the amount of those are rather small compared to the number you'd see in a city like that too.
But yeah. I just 'assume' they are there and we're nto hitting places where they are. (and try to ignore the lack of animals you *would* see on the streets that time of night.) It sort of goes along with the question of why are those streets so shiny clean? I mean those cobbles are spotless. No trash, no piles of rubbish strewn about. Its all nice, clean and sanitary. :) You know darn well it wouldn't be. But it'd be *hard* to work that in, too.
