jtr7 on 17/6/2006 at 21:36
Having dug around, it would appear the Mages have no unifying symbol, such as a hand or the four elements on one crest.
There are no "Hand Brotherhood" symbols on banners, books, or robes that I've found.
If there is a symbol for the Hand Brotherhood, could somebody please show me?
Thanks, in advance!:thumb:
jtr7 on 17/6/2006 at 22:42
Yeah, they're the same symbols as on the talisman's. I downloaded the textures so I could look for a banner, stonework, or a book cover, and at their robes, and haven't found anything.
I am wondering, though, if there's anything I've missed.
It's for my fanfic. I want to stick with canon, whenever possible. I have an idea that I'd like to explore, but the idea will be shot down and need re-working if there is NO symbol.
Hoping....
metal dawn on 18/6/2006 at 02:08
edit: Oh, you said this was for a fanfic? Never mind.
There are none, as far is I know.
Here's my suggestion.
(
http://imageshack.us)
Inline Image:
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8890/openhand0dw.gifFor the symbol, make a open-spread hand (like the one above) with the symbols of the four elements cradled in the palm.
Technically there is a fifth element: Chaos. This idea is mentioned in Belboz's missions and is symbolized by the color black.
You could place a black vortex/swirl symbol over the thumb and the other elements over the other fingers.
Chaos as an element it isn't canon per se, but it does make a lot of sense. When fire, earth, air, and water are combined chaos results.
Just trying to help.
Vigil on 18/6/2006 at 11:06
It's not canon full stop; there's nothing in the original games to suggest its existence at all, "technically" or otherwise. Whatever Belboz or other FM authors may have come up with is irrelevant in that respect.
There's nothing contrary to canon about the idea either, and of course nothing to stop people from playing with the idea in a fanfic, but I don't think it's very plausible that there would be an official 'branch' of the hand mages dedicated to it (to the point of putting it on their stationery). It'd make far more sense for it to be considered too dangerous, powerful and politically threatening and for practitioners of it to be banished, a la Azaran the necromancer in T2.
Regardless of that you could consider there to be no unifying symbol at all, jtr, but think of useful story reasons as to why there isn't: for instance that Hand politics are characterised by bitter infighting, that the cabals do not consider themselves as mere quarters of a whole, and so no safe consensus could be reached.
Vogelfrei on 18/6/2006 at 11:21
I'd say that there is no problem with inventing a hand-brotherhood-symbol if it is important for the plot. In fact, such an emblem would rather fit them, maybe they don't celebrate themselves through it like Bafford or other Lords but as a brotherhood such a sign builds some sort of, uhm, membership-feeling. To go with canon (at least a bit) the mages could keep the symbol secret or wear it as rings or hidden medals which you can't really detect ingame.
As for the chaos aspect: I think this is rather difficult. Mages actually work with the elements - and that's it. We do know, however, that there are other possibilities to work magic in this world, such as hammer spells, mechanist gears, critter bug-spitting or flying skulls. Plus there is this whole necromantic thing.
Azaran leaves the brotherhood (he probably hast to) to turn to his studies of the Book of Ash. The mages do know about this book and about his experiments and they fear them. As magicians they sure ought to have wide knowledge of all forms of magic and since Azaran is able to learn how to summon the undead I think it's likely that most of them are, too. This might be called the chaos-factor.
Still, pagans are also able to rise them, as are "places" or the undeads themselves (at the bonehoard, for example) because, maybe, they have left something unfinished in life.
metal dawn on 18/6/2006 at 19:47
Quote Posted by Vigil
It's not canon full stop; there's nothing in the original games to suggest its existence at all, "technically" or otherwise. Whatever Belboz or other FM authors may have come up with is irrelevant in that respect.
IT'S NOT IN THE GAME SO IT CANNOT EXIST!
HOW COULD I HOPE ARGUE WITH SUCH FLAWLESS LOGIC!?
Okay, you win.
Admittedly, I needed some way to get all five fingers to work. The "elements in the palm" was my principle suggestion, but I thought I might as well give an alternate suggestion since I might give the rong impression (like I'm trying to take control of the his work). But I also didn't want anyone going with any of that cartoony four-fingered hand crap. I hate those lame-four fingered hands with a passion.
Vigil on 18/6/2006 at 20:00
Uh, dude.
You said that technically there is a fifth element, chaos. There isn't in the games. What's in the games is canon, and what isn't isn't. He was talking about canon. You were talking about canon. I was talking about canon.
I never said such a thing couldn't exist just because it wasn't mentioned in the games, in fact quite the opposite. What I did say was that the claim that "there technically is" already is false. Are we done here?
R Soul on 18/6/2006 at 20:09
Why can't the smybol just be the four elements in a 2x2 square?
Anything that involves a hand would just leave itself open to innuendo.
