Xenith on 29/6/2006 at 09:01
Quote:
it's a reference to the Evil Dead movies
I'm not so sure. I read an interview (or whatever it was) and it said it was just coincidental that the "ash" connected whit the character Ash
edit: maybe I can find the quotes
edit 2: yes, here's what I read
Quote:
According to Emil Pagliarulo, ExLGS and current T3 designer with Ion Austin, "(W)hen I came up with the Book of Ash, I was indeed just paying homage to "evil" works like the Necronomicon. The "Ash" referred to fire, burning, etc. There was never any intentional reference to the Evil Dead movies, but the more I think about it, the more I must have done that subconsciously (been referring to the character Ash) and never even realized it..."
Raven on 29/6/2006 at 10:28
yeah, I know the book of ash is an in-joke... I was looking for the chainsaw too :) GROOVY!
first off to be clear I am going to list the 7 elements and their names
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earth
fire
wind/air
water
light/life/the known/seen/clear/spiritual/clerical/will?/the unhidden/the present (and possible past)
dark/black/death/the unknown/the unseen/the hidden (and so also future and possibly past)
Intent/control/purpose/being
So I am going to try and stick with life and dark as the names of the other two elements but remember that these names should encompasses all the listed individual designations attached, Life because the most obvious use is in karrass robots and the tricksters/pagans natural creations and unquenchable need to grow flowers. Dark because it is most often used by the keepers to help hide stuff. Intent because when we are talking about individuals controlling the magic this is an area that the spell caster can dictate, but remember the control element is still present in all phenomena even if it was not specifically created by a being/human. And Wind because listing the elements as such reminds me of captain planet – he’s a hero.
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Some of the various intents that we have seen in thief (not exclusive)
Order/Chaos/Balance/growth/creation/destruction (i am thinking sunburst devise)/harm/heal
I am now also tempted to list these elements like the ingredients used to create some of the phenomena that we are witness to in thief (with the understanding that through the nature of things, all elements are actually needed - hence the word elements (in a classical nature, wow this long post is actually making me grateful for our periodic table) - but I mean listing the main elements as seen through the defining characteristics of the phenomena
e.g
a broadhead arrow – wind & intent (though obviously into the actual creation of the arrow all the elements were used)
a water arrow - water & intent
a fire arrow - fire & intent
a gas arrow - wind (maybe also a heavy use of fire or water, but mostly wind) & intent
a moss arrow - earth & intent
an ICE arrow - water & wind & intent
a holy water arrow - water & life (& possibly dark) & intent
noise maker arrow - wind & life(representing the mechanism used to create the distracting noise) & intent
undead - walking corpses - all of the elements in a heavy amount but mostly light & dark & intent
undead - ghosts - again all elements, but not so much of the 4 common elements
vine arrows - earth & wind & life & intent
rope arrows - wind & life & intent
stompy cannon robots - earth & fire & water & air & light & intent & probably even some death... what I am saying is that the robots are very similar to the undead (though probably less likely to spring up naturally, mainly due to the lack of them being in such abundance... though I think I can see a pretty cool FM right there. An abandoned mechanist cathedral with two corrupt brothers fighting over the land while their tenants suffer (and a possibly drummed to fight for either of the lords) - all you need is an object of power (possible not even of our conventional notions of magical power maybe just something REALLY valuable) that has been left in the cathedral and STOMP - undead robots awaking from their slumber through the twisting greed and corruption of man! (it might have to be a bt of a story arc for a two or three mission series :D )
okay I am getting bored of that, but if you care to mention a phenomena I hope you can see where I am coming from.
Now in reply to your actual post!!
And okay I do see/admit that perhaps the spiritual, glyph and elemental magic should be completely different and separated categories - but the amalgamation of all the magics into the 6 elements (and the seventh element - that of control or intent) scheme was mostly to bring some reasoning to the necromancer's and there origin. It seems misplaced that the necromancers are the only instance that we hear about one of the un-common elements if the magic schemes were separate. To have them work with all the 6 (okay 7 if you include intent) symbols just seems more coherent, remember that we are talking about the thief magic system and not necessarily one that is related to or practised in other mythologies. To have the source of undead be that of a twisting of the elements light and dark and the gylths having their origin in the dark element (though I am sure that they could be used in amalgamation of the other elements too, like your ICE arrow or vine arrow… but on a grander scale) brings these aspects of thief into more common ground – as the 4 common elements are found everywhere (earth arrows in a pagans pumpkin patch, fire arrows in the furnace of the hammers) so are the other 2 life (found in umm, life) and dark (found in ermm, the future), and the 7th element is central to everything.
You are also correct in saying that the brotherhood of the hand does seem fraternal, all though I would suggest that there are definitely mages that exist outside the brotherhood - perhaps the brotherhood tries to suppress ANY study of magic except there own (though there is little evidence for this, and I could also imagine that they will snobbishly cooperate with anyone willing to donate to their cause - perhaps through a financial donation or a donation to the library.) I think where I was coming from when suggesting that they were fairly disparate was the idea that I had that the botherhood also acted as an embassy or enclave for (a specific group) of outsiders to the city.
As for the hammers and their relation to elemental magic… yes I probably would be sent to cragscleft as a heretic and tortured horribly for what I have suggested – that their holy powers is similar/the same as the pagans and for writing about the very unhammer like elemental magic. What I am suggesting is that the hammers do not agree with my take on things (which I see as mostly from the mages perspective – those that study the magical nature within their [the thief] universe) and yes probably to link any elemental phaffing around with pagan sympathy calling for a good thumping. In this respect they are hypocritical because it is obvious that they use the elements fire and water extensively. I would guess that the presence of fire crystals in their furnaces, even if they formed naturally, have the effect of making the fires burn hotter and because of this I doubt the hammers actively seek to remove the crystals – plus I would put good money that in their experimental labs (and e.g. the machines in soul forge) common elemental magic is used excessively (though not widely documented).
Oh by the way, the reason I am coming out with all this tripe is that I am kinda creating a FM called the life of a thief where one of the main characters is a crystal expert studying the phenomena of crystallisation of the life element (and there is a conference being held by the brotherhood of the hand that he has been invited to speak at).
And oh yeah undead in the Maw… yes there is no undead humans in the maw… but I have always speculated that crayman were a form of undead but mainly through the twisting of not life and dark, but of water and earth… - though a much more sophisticate twisting, cause I also like the idea that there is a crayman village yet to be discovered.
Raven on 29/6/2006 at 10:50
Here is a selection of the readables I created for use in "The Life of a Thief" that will be scattered appropriately in the level
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A study on crystals
The nature of elemental crystallisation is in constant danger of being taken for granted. Presented are a catalogue of recorded phenomena and established theory on the crystallisation process. Conclusions drawn speculate on the crystallisation of rarer fundamentals.
The four common crystals evidentially form over time from a fusion with the natural weave that surrounds them. Theories compete which comes first, the element or the crystal, certainly it has been recorded that springs can flow forth from crystals placed appropriately, but also new crystals have been found to form in bodies of elements where previously there was no such crystallisation.
It still remains a rare skill to manufacture crystals, pagan and hammer magic appear adept at producing earth and fire, while the hand mages rituals are very laborious (not to mention tedious...)
----------------------------------------------
6th - Crystal conference, Hand Mages Keep.
Day 1
The city owes a great deal to the hand mages, never has our understanding of the forces been so clear since their arrival, plus the really know how to give a feast!
Day 4
That fool Ramton is obviously mistaken. I wouldn't be surprised if his null results were cause by him spilling ale on the ruins. I am convinced that crystallisation of fundamentals is more than mere rumour.
Day 6
It is true a sound knowledge of such phenomena would prove enormously beneficial, the healing properties alone should prove astonishing.
Day 13
To think the elements of life captured with in a crystal! This proving true, from equilibrium theory... I dread to think ...
Recorded Statement -
The stone was produced at the conference and the room fell silent. I swear I saw Br. Claude begin a hammer prayer only to fall short before complete. Then Jennifer began to change... I can not say what she, she was monstrous that is when I ran – and the light shone from the stones, it captured them it took them, it took them all!
---------------
The thief sacrificed his life to a paranoid guarding of the stone and constructing the layer underneath. A mysterious women worked her way into the man’s life – she eventually stole the stones from him. Using the stones at the conference – she enslaved the attendant.
"They used love against me Garrett, they used life against
me!"
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Commonly referred to as blessing or "sanctifying", with effects of water crystals corrosion of necreum elements.
"Yet any physical change of structure on this plane has yet to be detected between accelerated water crystals and common crystals"
--------------------
A study on crystals
Formation of crystals, accelerating growth.
Crystal formation and manufacture.
Holy Water Crystals, Burrickman! (working title)
Vigil on 29/6/2006 at 17:21
Avoid the temptation to clarify all this too much, and especially avoid the temptation to present the player with every bit of systematisation you've worked out. These plot elements work best when there's good-sized areas left unspecified - the player is then free to speculate on their own (as everyone has been doing in this thread) about how the systems work, and the backstory as a whole will feel much richer and more intriguing as a result. Nothing kills a setting better than being cut-and-dried.
That all being said it's also kind of an argument for not working it out in too much detail yourself. The LGS designers certainly didn't, otherwise there wouldn't be three pages' worth of speculation.
jtr7 on 11/7/2006 at 06:29
I just want to throw this out there:
I just managed to install TDP on the library computer. It plays fast, but that's a good thing, since I was able to re-explore the missions and get more first-hand experience than I would otherwise. I was able to play up through The Sword. I haven't completed the mission, yet, because I'm exploring, but I only need to walk outside for success.
Anyway, I found three GLYPH-related traps, in Constantine's Mansion, that I never knew about nor managed to trigger on previous plays. I'd been in two of the three general areas, but my play-style kept me from setting them off, even accidentally. I noticed two of the triggers, but never looked too close, as it seemed that they should be avoided. Now I know what they are.
All three traps have the same glyph on them. As soon as I find the texture/particle image, I'll post it. The first one I found--the one I'd never seen before--looked like a gas- or flash-mine at first glance. I inched forward to get a closer look, and just when I could clearly make out the glyph, it triggered.
I saw what appeared to be the glyph flying off the surface at my "face," spinning like a boomerang. There appeared to be at least two. I thought it made a sound, but what I heard was the sound of two arrows getting fired (emitted) at me from above. When the glyph "hit" me, I actually took damage from an arrow in my back. When I stood up to contemplate this "new-to-me" trap, I noticed the other arrow embedded in the wall. After experimentation I discovered I could simply step forward to trigger it, the glyphs would fly at me, I would step back, the arrows would miss me, and I could collect them for myself. This particular trap could be set off three times (on Normal), and then the glyph "texture" would be gone, the trap would no longer work, and I had collected six arrows (except the first time, when I was struck). Of the three glyph traps I have found, this was the only one that utilized arrows. The other two utilized the purple energy bolts. Unless I'm mistaken, the trigger mechanism tosses out one glyph per projectile.
I'm surprised these traps have rarely, if ever, been mentioned. And DromEdeers, is this what the "TrigOBB Glyph" script is about?
