faetal on 7/2/2015 at 20:03
This Manwe chap is really something :)
Yakoob on 7/2/2015 at 22:21
Quote Posted by faetal
(Before you reach for your favourite "so you're equating sexism with racism?!!" response - I'm not saying they're equivalent, they just exist and the latter are seen as more acceptable than the former)
But to go the extra step - why not? If you look at both as a struggle and marginalization of groups within a society it is not that dissimilar. While their history and rationale may be different they both intend to create divisions and discriminate a group based on biological factors, mis-beliefs and tradition-based societal standards. While the biological factors may be true and *should* be acknowledged, they are not an excuse to disadvantage one side.
The only real major difference is the distribution, where the race group has often been a minority and women vs. men is a more even split. But even that is not always the case (the hispanics are over 50% of LA now, technically I am the minority here, but that still doesn't stop them getting the shitty end of the stick). And the LGBT community is definitely in the minority as well (albeit decreasingly so).
I may be looking at the issues too broadly so feel free to correct me, but if we look at both racism and sexism in terms of shifting cultural beliefs towards more diverse/progressive/equal civl rights mindset, the two struggles are in a way the same thing, but with different targeted groups and rationale behind the marginalization. In the end it boils down to "they are different from us" and "we have the power so we are afraid to/don't want to share it."
Quote Posted by Manwe
But that's the thing, I don't actually care one bit about any of this. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Nobody around here cares about any of this. You guys are the ones frothing at the mouth ready to burn alive any dissenter. And I'm talking as someone living in Montpellier, one of the most gay-friendly city in France. Many of the people I go to university or work with are either gay or bisexual. It's extremely common to see gay couples in the street here. We have no problem with that. What we have a problem with is the importation from America of asinine debates on societal issues that don't concern a vast majority of our population. We have more pressing issues than your fucking "outrage du jour".
Amid Manwe's head-shaking arguments, I wanted to highlight this as one bit that actually makes sense and I agree with. I do not know the situation in France at all, but if indeed things are moving towards increased acceptance of the LGBT community and the society isn't making huge strides to prevent that (ala Jim Crowe or the such), does the issue really need to be brought up? Some argue there still is discrimination but big societal changes take time to implement (both on the cultural and law side of things), so it's natural the process can be moving slowly. But as long as it's moving fairly unhampered, is there really a need to go all SJW about it? Isn't that just detrimental to the process?
faetal on 7/2/2015 at 22:46
Who is going all SJW? Tony loves throwing that label around and talking about people's mindsets, but I still don't see what harm it does to suggest that marginalised people don't need stigma on top of their already pretty difficult situation. No one has any trouble applying this to other groups who have faced discrimination, because the idea that the discrimination was a societal wrong is now widely accepted. It's still OK to mock transgender people because people like Tony are still operating under the out of date notion that it's some kind of perversion or life choice. Maybe it's because I know people who have been affected. I don't care about this SJW label being thrown around as if to make people feel bad if they even speak up in support of groups who've been marginalised - it's asinine to think that considering e.g. transgender people to be in need of a bit more support from society to make them feel less like complete freaks is somehow a bad way to be.
I've been perfectly calm and rational about why I think this way, given varied examples, backed up the transgender phenomenon with peer-reviewed science. I think at this point, I'm kind of past caring about Tony's character judgement. I'd maybe even go so far as to say that a negative character judgement from Tony is kind of a good thing.
Muzman on 8/2/2015 at 01:37
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
And that, my friends, summarizes the SJW mindset
-yadda link etc-
That is utter garbage. And the article is pretty funny. Vapid smugness from the right wing press. I tell you, when the games press all have a little viral spree of articles on the same lefty topic it's a terrifying group think hivemind.
When tedious old Neo-con hacks do it, it's sage commentary on a very real concern about the attitudes of the young today that no man or woman of letters across the globe could fail to ignore. What is to be done with these youth, these women getting all angry and holding signs? Didn't happen in my day you know. University used to be a place of learning not all these opinions. Pinkos and skirts and negros at least had the good sense to keep their opinions to themselves, what?
Well the darkly funny part is I have seen all this before. 25-30 years ago. Infact it was bigger and louder and more aggressive. I wasn't paying that much attention at the time of course. But soon after we learning about it all at university, gasp.
There was protests and loud 'SJWs', I suppose. Recognisable as such by today's standards anyway. Post structuralist- Marxist- feminist influenced arguments for restructuring power to aid those disadvantaged flew all over the place. Not that anyone opposed to them really understood them, but hey. There were rules about sexual assault drawn up on campuses, talks and instructionals about all sorts of things like that. There's hardly any of it today by comparison.
The Right, of course, were
very concerned and told us the sky was falling and free speech was threatened, on the road to intellectual stagnation and tyranny! etc.
It didn't though, as you can see. Quite a lot did change too, for all the doomsaying.
As the religious right does its level best to undermine many of these achievements lately, people feel it might be time for another go. Just a top up to make sure we haven't forgotten all this stuff.
Well, people have apparently. They say those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. I reckon most people think that's just a cliffs notes of World War 2 and the Roman Empire and you're done. Sadly there's quite a lot more history than that, if anyone cares to remember.
Tony_Tarantula on 8/2/2015 at 02:02
What concerns me though, is that the tables have turned. Dictating puritanical standards of behavior, speech codes, trying to regulate sexual behavior, etc, was previously the domain of the far right.
Now that the left has embraced wholesale the censorship of behavior who is left to stand on the side of civil liberties?
That's whats different this time.
Starker on 8/2/2015 at 02:52
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
What concerns me though, is that the tables have turned. Dictating puritanical standards of behavior, speech codes, trying to regulate sexual behavior, etc, was previously the domain of the far right.
Now that the left has embraced wholesale the censorship of behavior who is left to stand on the side of civil liberties?
That's whats different this time.
Seriously, for someone who accuses other people of being on a high horse, you and Manwe are so high on your fcking horses* that you can't even see the ground any more. I'd suggest cutting back on the stronger stuff.
* not to confuse with regular horses
DaBeast on 8/2/2015 at 03:33
Quote Posted by TTK12G3
I am surprised you guys are getting so worked up over what is probably going to be a quick little time-waster.
But this is the internet, if people can't use any excuse to force their disposition onto others (and criticise them when they don't accept it with a thank you) here, then where else?
demagogue on 8/2/2015 at 03:43
I find it hilarious that discussion of this game devolved into rants on transgender rights and the emotions and motivations of people getting their privates chopped off / sown on and living the life they want. It serves this POS game right. Love always triumphs over Hatred in the end.
GodzillaX8 on 8/2/2015 at 04:56
I'm going to make my own game, called HatRed. It'll be about a man who just wants to buy a red hat, but he can't decide which one to get.
