Sulphur on 4/2/2015 at 07:10
Quote Posted by Manwe
itt people don't know what escapism means/are getting too old/should find another hobby/are... American maybe? &c.
Is creating so many strawmen in one gasp a full-time job, or just another hobby?
Renault on 4/2/2015 at 07:52
Manwe, you seem to be taking the stance that just because it's a video game, and it's not real, that there are no limitations or boundaries for good taste, or moral behavior. Anything goes, right, because it's fake? If that's the case, how would you feel about a rape simulator? To top it off, let's throw some infants and elderly in there too. That should be fine, it's just escapism anyway.
I've played my share of violent games too, but I've never been comfortable running over pedestrians or killing cops (that's not to say I haven't done it though). It's all context. I don't have any problem justifying my violent behavior in games if it's against someone who's evil or trying to kill me or others. But the same holds true for real life - I'm just never put into those types of situations in day-to-day living.
Judith on 4/2/2015 at 11:59
First of all, there's no such thing as 'gaming community' any more. The phrase is as useful as 'book-reading' or 'film-watching' community. It's not one cohesive group.
Secondly, games are usually defined as sets of rules that players learn in order to win, complete a level, or otherwise achieve any preset or self-imposed goals. Gears-of-duty type games hardly teach us anything, they might improve our eye-hand coordination, situational awareness and reflex. But mostly they're based on atavisms i.e. we don't need to be trained killers or expert survivors these days, at least not in 'western civilization'. This is evolution for us. If the message is that killing around 500 AIs in a 4 hour gameplay can be 'thrilling'... I'd say more like 'tiresome'. This one doesn't seem to have even that level of communication with the players. So, it's quite hard for me to find reasons why I should try it out. I guess LPs might help a little, as right now I have no idea what they're trying to achieve with this.
Tony_Tarantula on 4/2/2015 at 15:59
It is a bit narrow to restrict games because of "escapism". Hell, are depression quest or gone home "escapism"? Nope. They're mostly social/political statements.
The flipside is that if we're going to accept the "games as art" argument it necessarily implies that same games must exist that serve their purpose not by being pleasant, but by making people extremely uncomfortable so as to highlight human issues.
Quote:
If that's the case, how would you feel about a rape simulator?
Inline Image:
http://www.atarimania.com/2600/boxes/hi_res/custer_s_revenge_pal_cart_5.jpgfaetal on 4/2/2015 at 16:22
That's a very narrow definition of art and refers to only one type. Art can be totally prosaic too.
I'm noticing a theme with your forum style though - for every x posts you make, at least y of them have to contain some statement about how social justice is a bad thing. It's like a tic.
froghawk on 4/2/2015 at 16:33
I didn't really read that post as having any negative spin to it, and I'm pretty sensitive towards attacks on social justice... he didn't say that making people uncomfortable was a bad thing! I read it as the opposite.
Anyway, I don't see why video games should all be lumped together and considered as a whole. Some are art, some are mindless and derivative stuff meant soley for profit, just like in any other medium. As Judith stated about the community, the same goes for the games themselves - no one has a conversation about whether music, film or literature is 'art' or whether it is positive or negative on the whole. The main thing that sets video games apart from those media is interactivity, but I don't think that's a good reason to start discussing their positive or negative impact as a whole, even if some outspoken voices in society want to spin it that way. But maybe that goes without saying!
faetal on 4/2/2015 at 16:47
I mean in general. With Tony, you're rarely more than 5 responses away from some stab at how SJWs are ruining the internet.
I think mainly he's worried they may beat him to it ;)
Manwe on 4/2/2015 at 20:10
Quote Posted by Brethren
If that's the case, how would you feel about a rape simulator?
I guess I would advise rape victims to avoid playing games that might remind them of their ordeal.
Quote Posted by Brethren
To top it off, let's throw some infants and elderly in there too. That should be fine, it's just escapism anyway.
There were "children" in Deus Ex, they were essentially the same model as the adult NPC only shrinked down. They were also voiced by adults, and except for the one kid at the beginning of the game, I don't think any of them played an essential role in the story or had any meaningful lines of dialogue. As far as AI go they were also pretty fucking dumb. I loved killing them in the most horrible ways.
I think there are plenty of things to be offended about in real life as it is, like the murder of real children or the rape of real women for example, without the need to get offended at fake violence or fake crimes. Get your priorities straight people. And yes, it is fake, whether it's described in a book, drawn in a graphic novel, shown in horrifying detail in a movie, or interacted with in a game. It might be crude, insensitive, exploitative, offensive, but really that's why we have the ratings system in place. Why would you go and expose yourself to something that might offend you purposely?
froghawk on 4/2/2015 at 23:25
A) In many cases, you don't know if it's going to be offensive and
B) Have you ever heard of rape culture? THAT'S why people shouldn't make rape simulators.
catbarf on 4/2/2015 at 23:42
Quote Posted by froghawk
A) In many cases, you don't know if it's going to be offensive and
Are you saying it's wrong for a game to depict something that might be offensive to players? Freedom of creative expression does seem to imply that it's up to consumers not to partake in content that may be disturbing or offensive to them. How is Activision supposed to handle combat veterans with PTSD playing Call of Duty?
Quote Posted by froghawk
B) Have you ever heard of rape culture? THAT'S why people shouldn't make rape simulators.
If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying it's because that kind of game can perpetuate a cultural problem? But if that's the case, why aren't we talking about games like GTA in relation to gang violence, or Insurgency in relation to jihadism? Or am I misunderstanding?
I'm not defending rape simulators by any means, but some of the logical arguments for why they're unacceptable seem to me like they're just as easily applied to non-sexual violence.
