froghawk on 5/2/2015 at 00:10
Quote Posted by catbarf
Are you saying it's wrong for a game to depict something that might be offensive to players?
No - but I do think that studios have to be responsible and be clear on what message they're sending and why.
Quote Posted by catbarf
I'm not defending rape simulators by any means, but some of the logical arguments for why they're unacceptable seem to me like they're just as easily applied to non-sexual violence.
They are for sure! Because media does reflect the culture it comes from, and at certain point we need to ask - why do most games involve violence, and why is sexuality off limits? This has always struck me as a self-hating ideology (perpetuating species = bad, killing people = good), and it needs to be examined. And that's part of the reason why I don't object to a game like Hatred - because it's getting those discussions going and forcing people to ask questions about why this particular game is considered bad and why others are ok.
And so, getting back to your question - do I think a military simulator like CoD that's used in RoTC training is bad for society? Absolutely, because it's sending a propagandistic message. So that goes in the same category as a rape simulator for me. Which isn't to say that I'm proposing we censor these things - just that developers should be aware of the message they're sending and, more importantly, why they're choosing to send that particular message. I'm advocating for conscious awareness and clear intent.
Tony_Tarantula on 5/2/2015 at 04:56
Quote Posted by froghawk
A) In many cases, you don't know if it's going to be offensive and
B) Have you ever heard of rape culture? THAT'S why people shouldn't make rape simulators.
For all this hysteria about "rape culture", I've yet to see anyone even come close to defining what they're talking about. Right now I lump "rape culture" in the same basket as "terrorism": It's a meaningless but emotionally triggering phrase that someone pulls out whenever they need to support a retarded idea and there's no logical way to do so.
Tony_Tarantula on 5/2/2015 at 04:57
Quote Posted by froghawk
No - but I do think that studios have to be responsible and be clear on what message they're sending and why.
For content
Inline Image:
http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID4377/images/Saboteur_ESRB.jpgAnd for messages, no, they shouldn't be "required"(as you're hinting at but didn't explicitly) say what their intended message in. That's also not how artistic expression and satire works. In many cases a theme can't be effective unless it is deliberately ambiguous.
Quote:
a military simulator like CoD
That's a contradiction in terms.
The military does use a modified version of ARMA to run training simulations. I don't object to that as the game in question (ARMA/VBS) doesn't portray combat in a way that's remotely glamorous. It doesn't have any social commentary on war or violence at all and is focused entirely an accurately simulating how different weapons and equipment function.
Tony_Tarantula on 5/2/2015 at 05:03
Quote Posted by faetal
I mean in general. With Tony, you're rarely more than 5 responses away from some stab at how SJWs are ruining the internet.
I think mainly he's worried they may beat him to it ;)
It's because nowadays literally ANY post that doesn't conform to SJW orthodoxy will result in a mob-rage or even people trying to doxx you.
henke on 5/2/2015 at 07:01
So you've been doxxed a lot then?
Tony_Tarantula on 5/2/2015 at 07:12
Quote Posted by henke
So you've been doxxed a lot then?
Happened to an acquaintance. I don't waste my time on places like tumblr or 4chan.
henke on 5/2/2015 at 09:18
So when you said "literally ANY post" you actually meant "literally ANY post on tumblr and 4chan"?
faetal on 5/2/2015 at 09:33
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
It's because nowadays literally ANY post that doesn't conform to SJW orthodoxy will result in a mob-rage or even people trying to doxx you.
That's quite hilarious given the recent GamerGate deluge of doxxing and swatting. GamerGate being pretty staunchly anti-feminism and all. On another note, your plumber's bills for removing infants from your bath outlet must be astronomical. I note though that in all of your criticism against pressure to eradicate sexism and homophobia, you don;t actually state your actual stance on sexism and homophobia. Without contrasting information, it's beginning to look like you're opposed to backlash because you don't support equality for women and homosexuals. If you do, go right ahead and correct me. Either way, it seems lazy to lump it all together as "SJWs" and then use the most extreme examples of that as a shortcut to dismissing all forms of social justice.
froghawk on 5/2/2015 at 11:48
Rofl, Tony had been doing so well lately and now he had to go and strawman me to death while spouting a bunch of nonsense. Shame.
To clarify, no, I did not mean that developers need to publicly clarify their intentions in the slightest. I hadn't even thought of that option. I meant that internally they should have a good sense of what they're trying to accomplish by portraying what they're portraying, because I really feel like most lack that.
And what is even remotely contradictory about calling CoD a military simulator? For the record, I personally know people that used it in training - I did not pull that out of my ass.
DDL on 5/2/2015 at 11:59
Totally unnecessary interjection to correct misinformation nobody cares about:
Quote Posted by Manwe
There were "children" in Deus Ex, they were essentially the same model as the adult NPC only shrinked down.
Incorrect: child models were separate, unique meshes (skinny and fat children, respectively). And their AI was exactly the same as any other NPC in the game (so admittedly, yes: fucking dumb). Killing them was generally regarded as a bad thing (yes, even Louis Pan).
Deus Ex 2 also had a lot of unique child models, which you could also kill. With coffee cups. And the game would call you out on it.
Yeah, I know: pointless correction, but it's Deus Ex, damnit.
