Hey people! It's just a game... - by Nicker
dexterward on 25/6/2011 at 16:02
Quote Posted by Chimpy Chompy
I read your wiki link but I can't see enough of a diffence between 1 week before birth and 1 week after. Same entity, different support mechanisms.
Not that I think "personhood at conception" is plausible either. So I guess we should make safe accessible abortion available so women can have it as soon as possible, and avoid huge moral problems later.
Same here.
Also, SD, I`m sorry but "authorities" with their birth certificates are supposed to be scientific proof of consciousness?
I`m always pro - abortion, but not one to promote it as some sort of lifestyle choice (and thats the view in some circles) It`s a serious thing, but some folk portrait it as "no biggie" some sort of cosmetic trim, like fixing a tooth or wart removal. Also the carelessness with condoms and such is
staggering - and I`m talking about 25 + , educated , cosmopolitan acquaintances of mine.
SD on 25/6/2011 at 17:31
Quote Posted by CCCToad
So basically "you're wrong because you're wrong".
I'm sure you'll do just fine at convincing people to more enlightened viewpoints with that argument.
I don't remotely expect to convince anyone. We're past the point of "convincing" right now. We have tens of millions of religious retards trying to impose their morality on everyone else, and periodically succeeding. Rational debate won't sway them. They're cancer in pants. You ever try to persuade a tumour to stop killing its host? It doesn't work.
Quote Posted by CCCToad
Do you have anything better to do than to throw out the same, trite hateful talking points you've been brainwashed with? For Chrissakes you look about as stupid as Focus on the Family right now.
What's this about brainwashing? Every opinion I hold has been reached through honest to goodness thought. Maybe you remember that.
And even if I had a frontal lobotomy, I couldn't look half as stupid as Focus on the Family.
Quote Posted by CCCToad
edit: And lumping them in the Taliban simply reveals that you yourself are an extremist to the point you can't even differentiate between religious groups. When was the last time you were roughed up for being an atheist and refusing to accept their radical version of Christianity?
It's not for want of trying. The only thing that stops this Christian Taliban from behaving as they want to is the law of the land - a law they're chip, chip, chipping away at (
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges) all the time:
Quote:
Rennie Gibbs is accused of murder, but the crime she is alleged to have committed does not sound like an ordinary killing. Yet she faces life in prison in Mississippi over the death of her unborn child.
Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit - though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death - they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.
Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.
"Women are being stripped of their constitutional personhood and subjected to truly cruel laws," said Lynn Paltrow of the campaign National Advocates for Pregnant Women (NAPW). "It's turning pregnant women into a different class of person and removing them of their rights."
Bei Bei Shuai, 34, has spent the past three months in a prison cell in Indianapolis charged with murdering her baby. On 23 December she tried to commit suicide by taking rat poison after her boyfriend abandoned her.
Shuai was rushed to hospital and survived, but she was 33 weeks pregnant and her baby, to whom she gave birth a week after the suicide attempt and whom she called Angel, died after four days. In March Shuai was charged with murder and attempted foeticide and she has been in custody since without the offer of bail.
In Alabama at least 40 cases have been brought under the state's "chemical endangerment" law. Introduced in 2006, the statute was designed to protect children whose parents were cooking methamphetamine in the home and thus putting their children at risk from inhaling the fumes.
Quote:
At least 38 of the 50 states across America have introduced foetal homicide laws that were intended to protect pregnant women and their unborn children from violent attacks by third parties - usually abusive male partners - but are increasingly being turned by renegade prosecutors against the women themselves.
Women are getting life sentences for having miscarriages, and
I'm the extremist? You complete and total fuckwit.
june gloom on 25/6/2011 at 17:39
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oFXIALf9zDA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed>
(
http://snd.sc/mD6Kbg) and also
Rug Burn Junky on 25/6/2011 at 17:45
Quote Posted by CCCToad
So basically "you're wrong because you're wrong".
No actually, you stupid fuck: "Because you're wrong, we can call you wrong."
But actually understanding and parsing language and basic logic isn't really your strength, is it now?
SD on 25/6/2011 at 17:46
Quote Posted by Chimpy Chompy
I think you're kinda trivialising the experiences of people who live under the actual Taliban, or fascists or whatever.
And I think you're refusing to acknowledge just how bad things are getting.
Quote Posted by Chimpy Chompy
At that stage... I read your wiki link but I can't see enough of a diffence between 1 week before birth and 1 week after. Same entity, different support mechanisms.
You're entitled to your opinion. Personally, I see a massive difference between something that doesn't think, breathe or emote and something that does, but maybe that's just me. To me, it's the difference between a toaster oven and C-3PO.
Quote Posted by Briareos H
^ pathetically full of bullshit, unable to get over a manichean and simplistic view of everything (even science). Ready as you are to fight to death for your uninformed ideas, you don't even realise how hypocritically close you are to the religious mechanisms of thinking you condemn so much. It reaches the point where thinking about funny one-liner replies isn't actually interesting any more.
Just as an aside, perception and proprioceptive centers are activated during gestation long before delivery.
Congratulations, a post even less worthy than CCCToad's. You must be proud. Fight to the death, what? This isn't Thunderdome.
You're just plain wrong about me. There's nothing religious about my thinking. Instead of just making a blind assertion, persuade me that I'm wrong. I'm always open to having my mind changed.
june gloom on 25/6/2011 at 18:02
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Azaran on 25/6/2011 at 21:23
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn2Vl_klC9w) Turns out some Christian fundies do kill their own kids, by denying them medical treatment that could have saved them, and instead putting it in the hands of God.
Shug on 26/6/2011 at 01:59
Holy shit, the CHIEF JUSTICE of the US Supreme Court said, "The 'wall of separation between church and state' is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned"?
Wowwweeee
Aerothorn on 26/6/2011 at 02:24
STOP
Jesus Christ why are we having an abortion debate. Has it really come to this? Are we all so full of hubris that we think we're going to uncover any new ground that hasn't been dug up a hundred times over in previous TTLG debates on the topic (not to mention the 900000000 debates outside of TTLG?) Please, please create a new and interesting topic instead of contributing further to this discussion.
Shug on 26/6/2011 at 02:41
I can't believe you think murdering children is okay, Aerothorn