BEAR on 2/3/2011 at 22:41
I saw Koyla's post coming a mile away. Not that he's not right, but when it comes to decisions that affect other people as well, its a little harder to work out.
the_grip on 2/3/2011 at 22:57
To a very large degree, humans are herd animals. We are social and operate on many unconscious levels that we are not aware of simply because of environment, genetics, or whatever.
**There is nothing wrong with this**
It is not bad to be "programmed" in many ways. We do quite a few things because it behooves us to do so in a crowd environment. Case in point, most everyone walks out the door in the morning with clothes on and doesn't push people out of the way, etc. Those are simple examples, sure, but my point is that it is not bad to be a herd animal and operate under herd instinct... of course, unless the herd is Nazi Germany, but I think that goes without saying.
Worrying about why you do something too much may be futile... we are social animals, and it can be easier sometimes just to chalk it up to that.
Kolya on 2/3/2011 at 23:05
Quote Posted by the_grip
of course, unless the herd is Nazi Germany, but I think that goes without saying.
Apparently not. Although I'm pretty sure people put clothes on before leaving the house in Nazi Germany.
Anyway, here's a less tired example that you might actually find yourself in. It's an enlightening article about group behaviour and how people do things in groups they wouldn't dream of doing alone: (
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/02/10/deindividuation/) Deindividuation
june gloom on 3/3/2011 at 00:01
Terrifyingly sensible article. It puts things like the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory into a wider perspective.
CCCToad on 3/3/2011 at 00:59
I think Grip is correct. To a large degree, we are programmed a certain way for a reason: that those "programmed" instincts helped our ancestors survive.
However, those instincts aren't perfect. While we are still at a caveman level evolutionary-wise, human society has progressed far beyond that. One common example is the appeal of "bad boys" to women. They exemplify traits that would have worked out well for survival in caveman society, but in the 21st century they tend to make pretty terrible mates.
demagogue on 3/3/2011 at 01:04
The flip side of that point is that reflecting on every little thing you do can be debilitating. It's like planning out every step when you run down a staircase; you're going to fall on your face when it's better if you just let the flow carry you.
And some things just don't need words involved. The US Supreme Court made a decision today that those gay-hate Kansas wackos have a right to picket their "God hates fags" signs at funerals. Putting aside the legal merits itself for a second, one of the Court's arguments was that you can't stifle even harmful speech to protect political discourse, and the proper response is more speech. But I had to think to myself, FFS it's a funeral. There's really no place for careful deliberation and rational discourse at all. It's a time for soulful reflection in the moment and any but symbolic words to that end only muck up the entire point.
That said, if push came to shove I would have decided like the court did too, based strictly on the way the law works (they're still allowed to have reasonable restrictions, like require them to be a certain distance out of sight, not use speakers, etc). But I wouldn't have any of these illusions that there's real political discourse going on here or a need for it like they did. (Of course you can take the "sacred" argument too far too. Then people will try to say all sorts of things are sacred to them that aren't really and give them license to shut up all dissent, which is of course a terrible outcome.)
Sg3 on 3/3/2011 at 01:06
Quote Posted by Kolya
Anyway, here's a less tired example that you might actually find yourself in. It's an enlightening article about group behaviour and how people do things in groups they wouldn't dream of doing alone: (
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/02/10/deindividuation/) Deindividuation
This is why I am so repulsed by group behavior. I've experienced too much of it to be able to accept the suggestion that there is nothing wrong with it.
SubJeff on 3/3/2011 at 01:35
I stopped reading at "The taunters walked away wondering what came over them."
Did they now? And the author knows this how? pffft get out
Edit: So I thought I'd give it another go. I came across this dross:
"Strangely enough, this same experiment was conducted with Belgian soldiers, and when they wore the hoods they shocked the test-takers less. In their case the uniforms they already wore promoted deindividuation, but the hoods isolated them. Among other soldiers they were part of a unit, a group. Under the hood, they were one person again."
Oh really? Presenting your theory as a fact is just lazy. Give me back my 5 minutes please.
Sg3 on 3/3/2011 at 04:13
The article may be bunk, but the effect it describes is something that I've consistently experienced and observed throughout my life. (At the receiving end, unfortunately.)
