Muzman on 17/12/2011 at 21:01
That bit in the ABC interview where he laments that he'd just had his first big book tour and probably wouldn't get another is a killer. Looking forward to that period of successfully coasting on respect for a few years etc.
As mentioned, it is really worth noting that, despite him being fairly well known in the last few years, he'd been at the coal face an awfully long time performing at a similar standard. Never seeking fame per se, just becoming gradually more impossible to ignore.
Rug Burn Junky on 17/12/2011 at 21:07
Quote Posted by Kolya
No need to hide your own light under a bushel. You got the uncompromising attitude and narcissistic sense of self-importance right at least.
Consider this the smartest man in the room derisively dismissing you as beneath my contempt. Grind your axe elsewhere, motherfucker.
june gloom on 17/12/2011 at 22:59
Quote Posted by Kolya
No need to hide your own light under a bushel. You got the uncompromising attitude and narcissistic sense of self-importance right at least.
Congratulations on having the worst post in this thread.
jay pettitt on 18/12/2011 at 00:05
Sorry Beleg old chap - you misunderstand. That may be my fault for not being clear.
The point I was trying to make (perhaps very clumsily, but current affairsy), is that Christians have a tendency to look upon other Christians with rosy spectacles on and end up turning a blind eye to obviously bad behavior and generally distorting the world view - I wasn't trying to say that Christians are children rapers.
I don't suppose it's even a particularly Christian thing. I'm sure all sorts of people think people of a similar sort are bound to be the right sort - and I'm sure it often goes wrong.
But that is the point. Christians do lie, rape kids and behave like shits on Internet forums. They're not statistically better people. Pretending that Christians don't do that kind of thing doesn't alter the fact that they do.
Quote:
Scots Taffer
I dont think it's necessarily two-faced, passive aggressive or mean spirited to say you didnt really care for a person's body of work but offer condolences to their loved ones in whatever fashion you see fit, however it is certainly bad taste in any situation. The only polemic involved here is the obvious and ironic one, which is fervent anti-religious types (as distinct from athiests) taking umbrage with a religious person expressing something in a way that references their faith. Theirs is a valid response and one that should absolutely be allowed. In fact, those attacking it read far more directly aggressive and vitriolic than the perhaps ill-advised intentions of the religious types. You need only look as far as jay's spittle-soaked ridiculously tenuous rant about child abuse in the church to see that.
Not necessarily hey... In general you mean.... And there was me somehow thinking Indie-Thief was simply urinating on the thread to mark it.
I don't mind that he did - I think it's good sport. I'm not offended or upset or think it unfitting. But pretending there wasn't sport being had is kinda, ya know, weasily.
Harvester on 18/12/2011 at 00:08
I wanted to address some arguments that Hitchens made in the 'Christianity is immoral' video but after reading RBJ's post I considered Hitchens deserves more consideration from me than a post in which I quickly address some things he says in a 3 minute video, while knowing hardly anything else about what his views were.
Quote Posted by Kolya
I know religious people who are not hoping for death, who are not trying to convert others and who do not think that they can redirect their personal responsibility to Jesus Christ.
From the little I know this last one only applies to Catholicism, ie to Protestants not at all.
This I do want to address. What exactly do you mean by this? Is this your personal experience when dealing with Christians? There might be some Christians who think they can offload their responsibilities to Jesus, but I don't know where you get the Protestant thing from. In Protestant theology as well as in Catholic, you can ask God for guidance and help, but ultimately you're responsible for your own actions. Curious to find out what you mean by this.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Christians have a really hard time with the idea that other Christians can be thoroughly reprehensible. Fellow christians can't possibly conduct the worst kinds of abuses, lie like children or just be oiks on the Internet. They're Christian after all...
If this was in reference to me, remember that I said I was repulsed by gleeful responses by Christians, not that I was surprised by them. I've just stopped going to a Christian forum where some people probably
have been making gleeful responses about his death (I'd check it but I'm thoroughly through with (some of the people on) that forum so I'm not going to).
I grant that "no true Scotsman" is a pit that Christians often and easily fall into. I've fallen into it myself from time to time. It's very easy to think "But the Bible clearly says this or that and that guy is doing the exact opposite without remorse. He can't honestly believe he's doing the right thing. How can he possibly be a true follower of the Lord?"
Harvester on 18/12/2011 at 00:45
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
The point I was trying to make (perhaps very clumsily, but current affairsy), is that Christians have a tendency to look upon other Christians with rosy spectacles on and end up turning a blind eye to obviously bad behavior and generally distorting the world view - \...]
But that is the point. Christians do lie, rape kids and behave like shits on Internet forums. They're not statistically better people. Pretending that Christians don't do that kind of thing doesn't alter the fact that they do.
I think with some people this stems from angry embarrassment, a feeling of outrage and disbelief, a "how can a Christian possibly do these things?" type of thing. The first response by some Christians when confronted with other Christians who are acting in a way completely opposite to the teachings of the Bible (and not in debatable things like having a different view on gay marriage or creation/evolution, but in terrible things like, you know, raping children entrusted to your care, which is clearly wrong, both morally and Biblically) is to feel angry and embarrassed, and because they are unable to come to terms with the fact that there are people who believe in the same God that are doing these terrible things that the Bible clearly condemns, they bury their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. That is not my response, but I do quickly fall into the pit of immediately mentally labeling those people as false Christians and thinking "a true Christian would never do that", in an effort to ease my mind and deal with my anger and embarrassment.
The Alchemist on 18/12/2011 at 01:00
Quote Posted by Kolya
No need to hide your own light under a bushel. You got the uncompromising attitude and narcissistic sense of self-importance right at least.
WHYYYY WONT YOU DIEEEEEE.
Vernon on 18/12/2011 at 05:08
Inline Image:
http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2011/12/16/hitch3/large.jpgStrange - he seemed to go pretty quickly. He only announced his sickness this year didn't he? Can cancer really take you that quickly? Or did he hold off on the announcement for a while? Terrifying.
He seemed so well just a couple of years back - smoking, drinking and spitting vitriol like a champ.
Kolya on 18/12/2011 at 07:47
Quote Posted by Harvester
This I do want to address. What exactly do you mean by this? Is this your personal experience when dealing with Christians? There might be some Christians who think they can offload their responsibilities to Jesus, but I don't know where you get the Protestant thing from. In Protestant theology as well as in Catholic, you can ask God for guidance and help, but ultimately you're responsible for your own actions. Curious to find out what you mean by this.
Yeah, it's personal experience. I know Christians who don't have a death wish (not even hidden) and who never tried to convert me. As for the deflection of responsibility, it is my understanding that as a Catholic Christian you can do whatever you like, ie you can sin your whole life in the most extreme case, as long as you regret it at some point. Either every once in a while or everything together on your deathbed. As long as you regret and ask for absolution you'll get it and you can be sure you'll go to heaven after you die. Quite convenient if you ask me. :)
Evangelical Christians (Protestants) don't have that same luxury. All they can do is to try to live their life as agreeable to God as possible and they can only hope that he will take them into heaven, but it all depends on his mercy, which they will never know until they knock on his door or something. So from my atheist view point they are holding themselves responsible.
