Somnus on 28/8/2011 at 18:02
Quote Posted by jtr7
A pure Thief game takes risks and is not favored by the masses.
Evidently you're wrong since here we are 13 years later, talking about the fourth game in the series.
jtr7 on 29/8/2011 at 00:20
You're talking about something very different. That's what's "wrong".
Renault on 29/8/2011 at 14:27
This newest iteration of Thief will be targeting the masses, but the trick is doing it in a way that appeals to both the old school fans and the new, uninitiated ones. DX3 appears to have pulled that off nicely. Hopefully the T4 team is taking notes.
To some degree, it's apples and oranges, as I believe the original Deus Ex sold very well, while Thief sold average to moderate. Because Deus Ex has guns and other modern weapons, it's naturally going to appeal to a much wider audience than Thief ever will.
As far as taking chances go, that's not necessary this time around. Really, only The Dark Project did that anyway, T2 didn't really go out too far on a limb like the original did, and T3 went backwards. But all that's necessary for this round is to stay mostly true to the original games.
That aside, I thought I'd mention that DX3 has rooftops galore! Probably more in Act 2 than in all of the Thief titles combined.
nicked on 29/8/2011 at 19:55
Yeah I just finished HR, and my hopes for getting a Thief 4 that's worth a damn have skyrocketed from a pessimistic 0.1% to at least 10%! I may subsequently cry like a little fanboy bitch when they release some details, but for now I'm becoming slightly more cautiously optimistic.
Too Much Coffee on 29/8/2011 at 23:30
HR is a decent game. And I know a different team is doing the Thief 4 development. Still, I can't help being concerned about the patrolling AI from what I have seen in HR, and hope this team does not borrow from HR. The AI in HR is too predictable. The guards patrol routes and actions while patrolling are always on a set cycle when not alert. It is not dynamic at all. In HR, it becomes too easy to predict their pattern. As long as you stay quiet and undetected, the same guard will never change his pattern. Unlike Thief, where the same guard often (though not always) may decide to turn a different direction on a whim.
The challenge in HR, even though the guards are very predictable, is when several of them are put into the same open area. Their combined predictable routes still require precise timing to pass unnoticed.
Bakerman on 30/8/2011 at 00:04
I actually thought the guards in HR were very good - most especially the way they looked around while walking, instead of just marching like a robot.
Too Much Coffee on 30/8/2011 at 00:32
Quote Posted by Bakerman
especially the way they looked around while walking,
But they always do it at the same exact places on their routes, as if it were scripted. So being that predictable is not very effective at trying to catch the player off guard.
Avalon on 30/8/2011 at 02:42
Yeah, I liked some elements of guard AI in Deus Ex but I hope the Thief 4 team uses it as inspiration for something better rather than trying to emulate it.
Guards randomly turning around is neat, but it should be dynamic, not scripted. If Thief has any kind of venting system, guards need to either be able to stuff themselves inside too, or throw something in there. They need to climb ladders, they need to basically be capable of doing everything you can do, if they have the tools to do so.
Deus Ex lost a lot of points in that regard because I knew if I got into trouble, I could just dive into a vent or, if the enemy doesn't have a gun, jump on top of a shoulder-high stack of crates and I'd be untouchable. I could then abuse those same escape mechanics to godmode destroy the helpless lugs screaming at me from out of reach with just one grenade toss.
A blend of Assassin's Creed enemy maneuverability with Deus Ex responsiveness would be awesome. Although maybe they should have just a wee bit more peripheral vision than in Deus Ex (or any at all).
TheGrimSmile on 30/8/2011 at 02:46
Hmm, I always thought the Thief guards went around in the same looped patrol and, after investigating some noise, sight, or apparent murder, went back to it.
Though the guard is HR went on regular patrols, it was more interesting to follow since their patrols were longer and they often stopped to look over a balcony, stare at a friend, or just take a break at the end of their loop.
The one thing I did find ridiculous were some of the NPC animations. There was one particular case where a cop would go through the same animation of slapping a table while making slightly irritated smalltalk with me. It would be nice to see the animation change after the character's scripted chat with another NPC.
Quote Posted by Avalon
Although maybe they should have just a wee bit more peripheral vision than in Deus Ex (or any at all).
:laff: Agreed. And the ability to look over chest-high cover in bright light to see our protagonist's spiky black hairdo sticking up.
Too Much Coffee on 30/8/2011 at 13:32
Quote Posted by TheGrimSmile
Hmm, I always thought the Thief guards went around in the same looped patrol and, after investigating some noise, sight, or apparent murder, went back to it..
They had predefined paths on their patrol route, but some guards (though not all) had somewhat dynamic behavior while patrolling those paths. Some guards were capable of randomly selecting a different direction when coming to an intersection of paths on their defined route, so you could not always predict which way they would go next. I have not seen even that basic capability in HR yet, although I have played only 12 hours of it so far.
